0:00 Hi everyone, welcome back to the Change Your Mind podcast, where we explore personal development, spirituality and science.
0:06 I'm your host, Chris Ashley.
0:07 I'm really, really excited for today's guest.
0:10 We are going to talk all about epigenetics, which is just a fascinating field and it really ties into so much of what we talk about on the show.
0:19 , first, a couple of quick announcements.
0:21 If you head to the link in the show notes, you'll find a lot there.
0:25 You'll find ways to sponsor the podcast.
0:28 You will find links to my book, Change your mind to change your reality, you'll find free courses,, paid courses as well, free downloads, free live masterclass, and all of my guests links as well.
0:42 And then as always, this podcast is part of the Los Angeles Tribune podcast Network.
0:46 We're doing a lot with personal development.
0:49 We just had the amazing LA Leadership Week and I was on a panel.
0:53 So check out what we're doing, it's really exciting.
0:57 Hi, I'm Chris.
0:58 When I was younger, I went through trauma that caused me to feel broken and lost.
1:03 But my life changed after I had a spiritual awakening.
1:06 Since then, I've dedicated my life to studying and learning from masters all around the world that have helped me to create a life of fulfillment and abundance beyond my wildest dreams.
1:16 Now I'm dedicated to sharing everything I've learned so that you don't have to suffer for decades like I did.
1:21 I've seen people's lives completely transformed, and I share it all right here.
1:28 OK, let's get into it.
1:29 So with me, I have Brenda Wallenberg, and you know what, Brenda, I didn't even ask you how to pronounce your last name.
1:34 Did I pronounce that correctly?
1:35 Yeah, you'd be great.
1:37 OK.
1:38 All right.
1:38 So I have Brenda Wallenberg with me.
1:40 Brenda is a specialist in analyzing and interpreting genetic profiles to design personalized holistic wellness programs.
1:48 She's been featured on TV and podcasts, has had articles and newspaper columns published, and enjoys teaching a variety of educational and corporate settings.
1:57 , she is the author of Overweight Kids in a Toothpick World.
2:02 She's also the author of Eat Sleep Move for Your Genetic Body Type, How to Physically and Emotionally Care for Unique You, really great titles, by the way.
2:10 She loves to co-create with her clients.
2:12 Yeah, I've I've always loved titles,.
2:15 And yeah, Brenda has been a social worker.
2:19 She's a co-leader of a faith community and a nutritionist.
2:23 So I'm so excited to have you here, Brenda, welcome.
2:26 I am really glad to be here, even our little pre talks both times were like, oh, we should be having coffee together somewhere, so.
2:32 I think it's gonna be good.
2:34 Yeah, where do you live, by the way?
2:35 What?
2:36 Just outside Vancouver, DC.
2:38 OK, we're, we're, we're nowhere near each other.
2:41 It's like, probably would be nice.
2:42 Yeah, just a little backstory, Brenda and I were just chatting for 10 minutes and I was like, wait, I need to press record because I'm just, this is fascinating.
2:49 , so, you know, I always start my shows off the same way, and that is by asking my guests what their origin story is.
2:56 So what led you on this path to want to learn about epigenetics and nutrition?
3:03 So I'll just give a 32nd explanation of epigenetics for those that are going, oh darn it, I gotta go type in Google and look up this word, OK.
3:12 Yeah, yeah, so epi comes from the Greek word for over or above, and in this case, it means over and above the genome, so our actual DNA material, you know, get stranded DNA from your biological mom, stranded DNA from your biological dad.
3:27 It then codes billions of proteins that makes you who you are, OK.
3:32 epigenetics says that we are not just bound and determined by our genetics.
3:38 So if we have a gene, a gene that predisposes us to certain types of ailments, for example, or we have a gene that predispose exposes us to a long life, for example, we can impact that.
3:52 Either for the good or for the bad, by what we do, by how we eat, how we exercise, how we sleep, what we think about,, and likewise, the environmental things that happen around us.
4:02 So that's the little mini, you know, nutshell, epigenetics one on one kind of spiel.
4:08 how I ended up the evolution of me here.
4:12 I, I think,, as you mentioned, I started off as a social worker, and I think a lot of people in the health, helping, helping profession, healthy, helping profession, and up there,, sometimes to try to see if they can bring a measure of resolution to their own origin, their own family of of origin, their own upbringing.
4:32 And I know for me, that was part of it.
4:34 We had a large family and then had lots of foster kids.
4:38 We adopted, had 4 adopted siblings.
4:41 And it was sometimes a really great loving house and sometimes it's a really chaotic house with mental health kind of, you know, issues rippling through it.
4:51 And,, I just, I, in hindsight, I think I thought I need to.
4:56 To become a social worker, psychologist or something and try to figure out how to process all of this stuff in my life and retain the really amazing parts and bring some resolution to the things that were more challenging.
5:08 So that was kind of my first, you know, you need to do this thing.
5:12 You mentioned pastoring, and we're, I'm not currently co-leading a faith community, but for 15 years, my husband, Mark and I did.
5:19 And that I think was one of the biggest parts of me seeing kind of body, mind and spirit all connected.
5:28 You know, you can do the social work training and you're really wrapped up in brain and neurological development and different ways that, you know,, we can become more or less emotionally sound, and then you feel the emotional, sorry, the spiritual component into it and start doing a lot of work on.
5:47 Evaluating the other, you know, what's outside of me, whatever you call it, God, source, you know, even shared humanity.
5:54 There's something beyond us.
5:55 And those 15 years with a lot of exploring of that.
5:59 And I remember sitting down on the couch by my husband one day and said, Oh man, like I really feel like I want to go back to school to become a nutritionist, because I've been a really sick social worker and helpful nutrition and herbalism had really helped with that.
6:13 And he looked at I mean, I thought he was going to go, are you a serious woman?
6:16 Like, what do you just like want to do a new career every 10 years, you know?
6:19 But he didn't.
6:20 He said, That makes so much sense.
6:23 Like, you've got the emotional component, you've got the spiritual component.
6:27 Probably time to go back and get the book learning on the, you know, the, the physical, the kind of sleep, the eating, all of that kind of stuff.
6:36 So that was how the layers all came together into this complex.
6:42 Situation where I'm completely loving what I'm doing now blending all together.
6:48 I love that story.
6:49 Thank you for sharing that and thank you for, I love that you put it into the context of mind, body and spirit, because as you were saying that, I was like, of course, it makes sense and it all ties together.
7:00 And I mean, I'm curious like if you found that epigenetics, even how that ties into spirituality too, right?
7:07 Because if you think about like being your own conscious creator or co-creator with God, like, I mean, I'm just, I don't want to put words in your mouth.
7:14 How has that affected the spiritual side too?
7:17 Oh, my goodness.
7:18 Like, you more that you understand,, how, so you get this set of DNA and it has this way that it should express itself.
7:28 Like, for example, think about,, electrical panel in your basement or your garage or wherever it is, and when you're born, you know, all of your genes, which code generally for a protein, are all flipped a certain way on that switch.
7:43 That is your baseline, OK?
7:46 But what happens after that, whether it is a traumatic power surge, whether it is a power encounter with the divine, whether it is a sense of shared community, whether it is proper nutrition, those surges have the ability to keep the genes that are flipped into their optimum position in that position.
8:10 And to actually, not so much, I mean, you can't go, you can't change your genes, OK?
8:15 If you have a coding, for example, that A and a T, there's four letters of the alphabet and the gene alphabet, A, C, T, and G.
8:23 and say you were an A and a T, you got an A from one of your parents and a T from the other.
8:27 No matter what you do for your whole entire life, you, you're not going to change.
8:31 That coding, but if that's a positive beneficial coding, you can do things that allow that to be easily expressed.
8:38 And if it is a more challenging coding, it's one that, for example, has you not be able to use many carbohydrates or it has you more prone to being stuck in cortisol fight or flight mode.
8:50 You can do things.
8:52 Do what you eat, the kinds of mindfulness you practice, the way that you,, you know, lift the burden off yourself of believing that you have to be doing everything for yourself and not connecting with some kind of form of higher power.
9:07 All of those things are going to reduce stress, increase,, metabolic health and energy.
9:15 Just have ripple effects that are going to allow your positive beneficial genes to express and ones that are more challenging.
9:22 In the words of Bruce Lipton wrote a book called Biology of Belief a number of years ago.
9:28 Yeah, yeah.
9:29 In it, he talks and he's gonna probably just die when I try to explain this because I am not a biologist, OK.
9:35 But somehow it's almost like a little sheet.
9:38 Gets right pulled over that part of your DNA where that gene, which might be more challenging in your current environment, and it just isn't allowed to be expressed.
9:49 , and so that puts a lot of power back in our hands and around choices of what we do.
9:55 So that was a long answer to the spiritual component, but I believe that when we have sound, healthy relationship with what we consider to be beyond, that just in every way, self-esteem, not feeling like you have to do everything by yourself, feeling like there's purpose, all of those things enhance gene expression.
10:16 So.
10:17 Yeah, no, I, I, I loved your long answer, and I love that you talked about Bruce Lipton.
10:21 I love him.
10:22 I got to meet him.
10:23 , and give him my book and he was so sweet.
10:26 And yeah, because I quote him a lot in it.
10:29 , you know, like, as you're talking, it really, it also is a sense of like personal responsibility, right?
10:36 You can't just, and it almost makes you step into your own power a little bit, right, because so often we kind of fall into that victim mode of, oh, it's just a genetic thing, right?
10:46 Like, or I just like inherited this and that's how it is, but you really can change.
10:53 You really can't change your genes and you were talking about your, the environment, it's not just your outer environment, your inner environment too, right?
11:02 I know Bruce talks about that a lot.
11:04 Oh, yeah, I know someone was, I was talking to someone the other day and they were astounded, they interrupted me and they said, hold it.
11:10 You're not just talking, you know, the pesticides that are being sprayed on the lawn next door, or, you know, the fact that you're, you know, Bad air quality in your house or your shampoo, you're talking you know on top of your food, you're talking about the way that you think about yourself and the way that you see yourself, and whether you believe that you have potential.
11:31 they said to me, you mean like that is considered epigenetics as well?
11:36 And I'm like, absolutely, it's not just these tangible.
11:40 Oh, I got too many pesticides in my, on my vegetables today.
11:44 It's inner and outer environment.
11:47 So absolutely.
11:48 And that, and that's why,, the aspect of trauma, especially childhood, childhood trauma, plays such a role in epigenetic expression to the, to the fact that when I'm in some of my training.
12:02 , that I take within this field, they will actually say this particular gene, for example, is in particular impacted by childhood trauma.
12:12 So, you know, trauma that happens before certain years can really interfere with or have this expression get altered or whatever.
12:21 So, so yeah, it's, it's a really interwoven for sure.
12:26 Wow, and listeners now, I'm sure as Brenda was talking that light bulb went off, you're like, OK, now this is why Brenda's on the podcast.
12:32 This is why epigenetic ties into it.
12:35 So what are there just, can you think of any examples that trauma specific like genes that trauma specifically can really alter?
12:43 Yeah, absolutely.
12:44 Like, like when.
12:46 When I,, when I teach in this field,, I have actually very fortunate.
12:50 I have a PhD.
12:52 I have a biologist partner in this, which is always nice to have when you're studying this.
12:55 She has a PhD in botany, but we do,, we look at about 11 or 12 different categories.
13:02 So we'll look at metabolic functioning, so how you process.
13:05 Use food, make energy.
13:07 We will look at how you absorb and utilize different kinds of vitamins and minerals.
13:12 We look at like longevity genes, and then the classic cholesterol, reproductive hormone genes, etc.
13:19 But the big category that we look at is, and especially because of my interest in,, social work and mental.
13:25 Health and emotional health, where she gets dragged with me down every, you know, big thing to do with that,, if we look at neurological health, we look at long term and short term stress responses.
13:36 We look at dopamine production, serotonin production, all of those types of things.
13:41 And that, it seems that that category in particular, which is not.
13:48 Not understandable, double negative there has a lot to do with childhood trauma.
13:53 The one gene I want to talk about in particular called an FKBP5 and, I'm gonna give another little mini bioinal thing here on the, the HPA axis.
14:03 So your hypothalamus pituitary adrenal axis.
14:05 We have lots of HP axis, HP gonadal, HP adrenal, you know, the, the, the hypothalamus pituitary impacts a lot of different things in the body, but the the little kind of row that you see them sitting on in an HPA axis if you're kind of thinking about a diagram in front of you, the hypothalamus.
14:24 This produces certain kinds of little messages and hormones that dribble down to the pituitary gland, which in turn makes more messages and sends them down to the adrenal gland.
14:33 And this particular,, HPA axis has what's called the negative feedback loop.
14:40 Several of them do.
14:41 But what's happening is once you, your adrenal glands have got the message, oh, you need to be producing cortisol.
14:46 , and that could be just because it was waking up in the morning and got some light.
14:51 On your face, and, you know, it's time to get up and be focused for the day.
14:55 That should drop, you know, throughout the day.
14:57 Or it can be because you were, you know, walking on the sidewalk and you see a runaway car coming your way, you know, and all of a sudden cortisol kicks up because that is essential for fighter flight.
15:10 That's not when you want your rational brain going, Oh, let's see.
15:13 Let's see if I can compute the trajectory of that vehicle.
15:16 I wonder roughly how You know, you just want the part of your brain that goes, jump over the damn head.
15:20 I just get over the head.
15:22 OK.
15:22 And so cortisol is super helpful.
15:25 We need it, but we need it in specific amount.
15:30 We don't want it high levels all throughout the day.
15:33 So therefore, this feedback loop says to the hypothalamus, OK, just pituitary gland.
15:39 OK, we have enough cortisol.
15:41 Thank you very much.
15:42 You can slow down production.
15:44 So if you are what we call red, you got the double homozygous, you got the challenging gene from both of your folks.
15:52 We think red traffic light, this could be a bit problematic.
15:55 OK.
15:55 , I have it, so I can speak well to this.
15:59 What happens is, it's like your hypothalamus and pituitary gland simply go, We're not listening, we're not listening.
16:07 And they don't tell the adrenal glands to slow down production.
16:11 And I gotta tell you.
16:13 This was the most amazing thing I could discover 5 years ago.
16:17 It was very disheartening.
16:18 I went, oh crap, double red.
16:20 Although you never be, oh crap, because these are your genes.
16:22 They got you here.
16:23 I was really good at running away from Pterodactyl.
16:26 OK.
16:27 But when we live in a state where we're chronically exposed to stress, And it is not that kind of quick, oh, run away or oh go get food for supper, but it's just like ongoing, oh my, my list is too long, my child is having this struggling, my parents are aging and whatever.
16:46 Being stuck in that is not helpful.
16:49 So I know every Exercise, known to mankind, spiritually, physically, emotionally, you know, mentally to get into parasympathetic.
16:59 I can box free with the best of them.
17:01 I can, you know, physiological sigh.
17:03 I can whatever, walk in nature, you know, cold shower, forest days, the whole nine yards, and I would get into rest incuperative parasympathetic side, feel myself, you know, start to calm down.
17:17 I feel like I would sneeze, and I would be back in fight or flight, and you'd spend You know, 80% of your life trying to meditate, quiet, calm, centered prayer, get in, you know, as the person to say it again.
17:31 The day that I learned, oh my goodness, I have actually don't have an ability to easily stay in there.
17:38 Like I just produce way too much cortisol and ongoing.
17:40 Basis.
17:41 And I learned what to do about it.
17:42 And we said that.
17:43 Oh my goodness, I've been like the most deli person.
17:46 You might find that hard to believe when you talk to me, but relatively speaking, it has made a significant difference for me and for clients.
17:54 That particular gene is,, often negatively impacted by childhood trauma.
18:01 Yeah.
18:02 Wow, yeah, thank you so much for explaining all of that.
18:05 I, I have like a basic understanding of a lot of it, so I was following, but it's so fascinating to learn about this.
18:13 And, and by the way, I feel like I'm also one of those people who have a really hard time like I have to really consciously bring myself down into a parasympathetic.
18:23 So I totally understand that.
18:24 , and yeah, so when you work with clients, you actually map all of this for people then, huh, and they can actually see, wow, that's so fascinating.
18:34 Absolutely.
18:35 Like,, and a map, it's a good word for it.
18:38 It's gonna cover up a name here.
18:39 And I know that you probably don't even do this,, I'll commentary on YouTube, but this is some of the 65 or 68 names that we cover.
18:49 And we literally, you know, we get the raw genome file from 230M or like,, one.
18:55 Company that we like to use now in Canada that ships all places called DNA Allure.
19:00 They don't have some of the same security issues that 23andM seems to have sometimes.
19:04 , and so we get this raw data.
19:06 It's this big, this comes like a WordPad file with all these, you know, RS numbers, RS big string of numbers after them means nothing until you run them.
19:17 Through a couple of different software programs that I'm trained in using.
19:20 And out of that, then you get this roadmap of what I like to deal with and is the most relevant one.
19:29 There you have lots of genes.
19:31 You have lots of snips, single nucleotide polymorphisms that are like a little typo in the gene.
19:38 But it doesn't make sense to learn about a lot of ones that you don't have an actual.
19:45 Something you can do about it, like a practical application of that.
19:48 So that's the ones that I concentrate on.
19:50 So yeah, people will send me their raw genome files they're called, once they get them.
19:55 I run them through the software.
19:56 We make a little map, we come up with a concrete game plan, lots of dialogue, how they feel about this.
20:03 Usually, people feel so relieved.
20:06 Even if they have challenging genes, because they, like you just said, well, that makes so much sense.
20:12 Now I understand why this, now I see why this is a problem.
20:16 Now I also will have 123 steps I can do to try to help that gene either not be expressed, or to support it better if it should be producing better benefits.
20:28 And can you actually change your genes then?
20:32 So you can't change your genes.
20:34 As I mentioned, if you were coded ANT for a gene when you were born, you will always be an A&T.
20:41 But let's say, for example, that,, whatever, I'm just making up a gene here, but whatever gene it is, let's say A was what's called the variant, and that usually is the one that has the more challenging outcome, OK?
20:55 And let's say T was the normal.
20:58 OK.
20:59 And again, usually, And all normal is the average, OK, that means usually it's that color.
21:06 So when I have a client and say they were AA, they got an A from their mom and they got an A from their dad, they're kind of like double normal and traffic light.
21:16 Scenarios, I would just say green.
21:19 Probably not a challenge.
21:20 It's just make sure that you do everything you can to support that.
21:24 If they got an A from one parent and they got the T from another parent, then that would be what's called heterozygous.
21:30 And in traffic light language, we say, OK, that's yellow.
21:34 So this could be potentially a bit of a problem.
21:37 We'll keep an eye on this.
21:38 And if they got A from One parent and A from the other parent, it's like, I am with the FKBT 5 gene, red, then we are really gonna pay attention to that and see what we can do to help that support that gene.
21:54 So it's not expressing itself in a challenging way.
21:58 You can't change your genes from an A to a T or a C to a G or whatever, but you can absolutely impact whether or not or how they are expressed.
22:10 And I, I, I've had clients come in, I'm thinking of one in particular young gentleman had some very challenging neurotransmitter genes, and plunked himself down in my office and he said, Oh, this just suck.
22:22 I just have crappy genes.
22:24 And I just said, OK, let's just stop right there.
22:27 OK.
22:27 So do you understand anything about evolution?
22:30 Do you understand that you have really crappy genes, you wouldn't be here.
22:34 OK.
22:35 You think back, however many generations and thousands of years.
22:39 Years ago, and survival of the fittest, you know, a lot of the genes codings that people end up with were ones that were really beneficial.
22:47 There's this one gene, MC4R.
22:50 It's my partner, my business partner and I call it the snacking gene.
22:54 OK.
22:55 It just, it just makes you seek, seek food.
22:59 Like it just that's what it is.
23:00 Even if you just finished eating a meal, you're rummaging around in your.
23:04 Mini sized Costco pantry looking for something else to eat.
23:07 And people that have that, like, let's see they have a double, you know, they're like, oh my goodness, I'm going, no, no, this was so good 5000 years ago.
23:16 Everyone else is in the cave, playing cards, slowly starving, and you are out making sure that you have something to eat.
23:24 It's this current environment.
23:26 That makes that gene more challenging.
23:29 And so that's the thing that we have to remember.
23:30 And that's why I also don't like saying genes are good or bad or even like some of the neurodiversity that we are now recognizing in the way that neurologically people process information.
23:42 , it's we need to understand that it's not that those genes are good or bad.
23:47 It's depending what the environment currently is, that can make that gene more challenging to have, for example, than a different gene.
23:56 So I think we can kind of avoid some of that good bad gene, bad language.
24:01 And I'm reading a real, just finishing up an excellent book right now called The Gene An Intimate History of, I want to say genetics, it's by my, it's by my bad kind of the title, but the author talks a lot about things being a mismatch for current environment rather than being,, oh, not good, for example.
24:25 Yeah, thanks for putting in that context that totally makes sense how that person is here today because their ancestors had that snacking gene, right?
24:34 Probably how they survived.
24:35 That's so fascinating to think about.
24:38 So when, when you're working with people, are you working on to to make the genes expressed in the best way possible?
24:44 Are you working on like diet, reducing toxins in their home?
24:48 Like do you work with them emotionally too, like how, what does that look like?
24:52 Yes, yes, yes, and yes, OK, so, so, yeah, so generally I, I try to sum it up in four categories.
25:01 It's, it's what you eat, it's how you supplement that so many people are taking supplements they don't need or ones that are actually not good for them.
25:09 , it's how you move, the type of physical activity that you do and how you calm.
25:15 So what kind of stress management things do you have going on.
25:18 And then, of course, the broader picture that you just mentioned around, you know,, the, the quality of your food, the quality of your air.
25:28 The environmental types of toxins, because those are going to definitely impact some of us more than others.
25:35 So, yeah, we look at everything.
25:37 And the, the fun thing, like I'm, I don't know if you know much about grams, like I, like I'm a one, I'm super analytical.
25:44 I love research.
25:45 I just, my idea of a fun Friday night is Reading things or looking at documents by organic chemists.
25:51 So like my husband's like, do you want to go watch a movie?
25:53 Oh, just a minute, you know.
25:54 But anyways, the reason I, I love, one of the reasons why I love working with epigenetics is that you can fine tune your dietary approach so much.
26:04 Like me and my clients, they just are trying every latest, greatest.
26:09 Keto, paleo, you know,, intermittent fasting, eating 6 times a day, like they just do not know.
26:17 And with, once you know your metabolic genes and you know your carb, fat and response and sorry, and protein response genes, you know, if you are better off eating intermittent fasting, if you're better off three meals a day, you actually know your baseline.
26:33 grams of protein that you should be eating per kilo of body weight.
26:37 You know, if you can tolerate saturated fat, like I've got a husband who kicks but on a ketogenic diet.
26:43 I practically die.
26:44 My tolerance for saturated fat is very low.
26:48 You need it.
26:48 I need it.
26:49 Everyone needs some saturated fat helps my cholesterol, helps make that hormones, but I need it a very small amount.
26:54 And then carbohydrates, you know,, like, contrary to the kind of No carb, low carb kind of philosophy, we actually all need some amount of carbohydrates, even if it's simply from vegetables or starchy vegetables, certainly not sugar and I'm not talking sugar muffins, that kind of stuff, but we need some of that and our genes tell us how much we do best on.
27:20 And if we Miss the boat on those.
27:23 We can foster things like insulin resistance, different types of metabolic diseases,, hormone fluctuations that are out of whack.
27:31 We can put on excess weight.
27:33 We can have trouble gaining weight to get us to a comfortable size.
27:37 So those things really play a role.
27:41 And this is It's really fun to be able to help people fine tune it and just then not have to worry about the rest of life.
27:47 Next time their buddy says, Oh, I'm trying this.
27:49 You want to do it with me?
27:50 They can go, Thanks, but no thanks.
27:52 I nailed my exact optimal fuel mix.
27:55 I'm good for the rest of my life.
27:57 Thank you very much.
27:57 That's where the ease of it comes in.
28:00 You can just quit the searching all the time.
28:03 That is so fascinating.
28:05 Why you more people not know that?
28:07 And oh, it's so new, Chris.
28:10 I mean, literally, the human genome was only mapped 20 years ago last month.
28:16 So it, it's like, you know, like, and when it first started, I'm going to exaggerate here, but really.
28:21 Only people like multibillionaires could even afford to get their genetics tested.
28:28 Like it it wasn't like now where, you know, on a, on a good Mother's Day so you can get your genes tested for like 149 bucks, like that was not happening.
28:37 So it's only been Like literally the last 5678 years when it's become more available to us, and where we've actually started having people study it more, other than just the scientists that we're doing the research.
28:51 So.
28:52 Got it.
28:52 Yeah, so it's really cutting edge.
28:54 I mean, as you were talking, like my husband is the same way, like on keto, he like rocks it.
28:58 I'm like, I can't do this.
29:00 I get like shaky.
29:01 I just, yeah, it makes me like angry.
29:04 Yeah.
29:04 , so is it the same with movement?
29:07 I know you mentioned movement.
29:08 Is it different types of wow.
29:11 Yeah.
29:11 So like, I love HIT, like even when I train for half marathons.
29:18 I often train them with what they're called the sparklicks like the the you know fast like crazy and then just slow down for a short period of time, whatever.
29:25 And, and, you know, I, I didn't know this because that was about 10 years ago that I was running half marathons, but I got my genetics back and I look at them and go, oh.
29:35 That explains that.
29:36 And it has to do with things like the ratio of slow to fast twitch muscle fibers that you have.
29:44 OK, that makes a difference in whether you're more wired for kind of interval training or whether you're more wired for endurance training.
29:51 There's that aspect.
29:53 But then,, I mentioned there's two different software programs I use, the kind of,, gold standard when I use the one that costs.
30:00 It's a fortune to run, you know, people's data through each time, not a fortune, but more, OK?
30:06 , that one then also looks at, and how, what your muscles do with effort and work.
30:14 Are you prone to inflammation?
30:16 Are you prone, do you make enough collagen easily for repair and restoration of, you know, your muscles when you've been tearing down that fiber and need to build that back up again.
30:25 So, I was able to fine tune my love of the interval training by going, oh, OK, I do have the right kind of muscle twitch fiber, which I knew about before.
30:36 But I have challenging muscle repair genes and collagen production genes.
30:42 So I'm gonna tailor my interval training instead of going like 95% all out from my, you know, high intensity part.
30:51 I'm bumping that back to about 70 to 75% and instead of giving myself, you know, a minute for recovery.
30:58 I'm going to give myself 2 minutes for recovery.
31:00 Like that's literally how much you can fine tune it.
31:03 , I do better on more reps, lighter weights.
31:08 Some people, I had a client last week and she was better on heavy weights, you know, less reps.
31:13 So all of that is part of what you can learn when you begin to understand more about your DNA.
31:21 Wow, OK, well, I'm, I'm totally gonna do this with you.
31:24 I'm like already like, OK, sign me up.
31:26 I want to learn this.
31:28 It's so fascinating and Oh my gosh, we only have 20 minutes left.
31:32 I have so much I want to ask.
31:34 Well, you mentioned the neuro neurodivergent thing, which is really interesting, and we're talking about like toxin load.
31:40 Can you talk to me a little bit about that?
31:42 Because I know, you know, I'm I'm a mother of a 3 month old and I'm thinking about toxin load a lot, you know, we're we're spacing out his vaccines more, we're being super mindful about everything filtered in the house and all of that.
31:56 , so I'd love to hear how This whole epigenetic thing plays into it.
32:02 Yeah.
32:02 So it's like it's interesting because there are, there are some genes where there is one gene that contributes to an ailment, OK?
32:14 And then there are other conditions,, high blood pressure, for example, there is no high blood pressure gene.
32:20 Instead, there are multiple genes that then play a role in whether or not someone develops high blood pressure.
32:28 , when we're looking at toxins.
32:32 Toxins negatively impact everybody, OK?
32:36 But they are going to more specifically negatively impact someone who has poor, what we call phase 1 or phase 2 detoxification genes.
32:45 So, detoxification, predominantly the phase 1, phase 2, I'm talking about what happens in the liver.
32:51 Phase one genes, they help break down those pesticides that are coming in.
32:57 The free radicals that are a natural byproduct of your going for a run, for example.
33:03 Those are fairly volatile elements, OK, compounds.
33:07 And so phase one breaks them down.
33:09 They're typically they have an unpaired electron, think back to organic chemistry.
33:14 They're very selfish.
33:15 They don't care about anybody else they're going around trying to stabilize themselves and ripping electrons off other cells, etc.
33:22 So the body is going like.
33:23 Now we got to get those those calmed down.
33:25 We need to break those down to a less volatile compound.
33:28 So that's what phase one does.
33:30 Phase two then converts that less volatile, but still volatile form into a water soluble form that's then excreted through your liver, your kidneys, sorry, not your liver, your liver doesn't, but then excreted out of your body through your bowels and your kidneys and your lungs and your skin.
33:48 OK.
33:49 Going back to the question on, you know, is it important that you reduce toxins, absolutely, especially if you are someone that is challenged in the detoxification process, which is why you can have people even in the same family, living in the same household, eating the same kind of foods.
34:08 But experiencing a higher degree of food intolerance or a higher degree of reaction to mold or a higher degree of, you know, skin issues or whatever, and it can be to do with these toxins.
34:22 So it's really great that you're doing the best job that you can with that.
34:26 , it's because when we look at Different types of ailments, detoxification almost always has a role in it.
34:36 , when, when I look at that little map that I showed you, when I see,, high inflammation, for example, in inflammation genes, when I see problems of detoxification, that's where we start.
34:49 We don't start by going, oh, you're a little low in your vitamin.
34:52 I think we should get your vitamin D up.
34:54 Yeah, absolutely, that's important.
34:56 But if you're not detoxifying, if you are chronically inflamed, if you are stuck in fight or flight, that cortisol is going to contribute also to inflammation.
35:07 We need to get to those root causes of those things, and then you're going to see other ailments start to improve just by virtue of you getting some building blocks sorted out.
35:19 I don't even know if I answered your question, I mean, I'm, I'm learning so much from you.
35:24 This might be like one of my favorite episodes I've ever done.
35:27 And so, so basically what you're saying is, you know, the detox pathways aren't working as well as they should, and toxin burden is worrisome, but it also everything else plays a role in that, right?
35:41 Like if you've gone through trauma, your emotions,.
35:44 You know, the food you're eating like all of these things, right?
35:47 Yeah, yeah.
35:48 And because the thing is, is that we're not isolated back to our very beginning conversation.
35:53 We're not body, mind, spirit.
35:56 So when we have dealt with trauma and we are emotionally responding to things, and we're, you know, we're stuck in a, in a behavioral pattern of what we did when we were.
36:06 7 or 8 that helped us to feel safe.
36:08 You know, that is whether that maybe that's binge eating on foods that are not all that helpful for us.
36:15 Well, it's fine to keep telling you to stop doing that.
36:18 But if we can't help you to break free through therapy and EMDR and maybe,, you know, a supplement is going to help reset that cycle, for example, you're not.
36:28 Going to begin to have a better time of reducing excess, sorry, excess cortisol and other stress hormones, epinephrine, norepinephrine.
36:37 So it's all tied together and the map helps us see,, these are probably the primary areas to start so that you can then have an easier time with the other areas and helping them get that well.
36:52 Thanks for clarifying that.
36:53 So, so would you take this map and let's say someone has detox pathways that aren't performing right, would you say, OK, you know, the step is to help supplement, to build up those pathways and make them stronger and then like, do you recommend the supplements or are you like, OK, take this to your functional medicine doctor, like, how does it work?
37:13 Yeah, no, we're,, I keep saying we cause my partner and I do a lot of this,, bigger training together, but,, we're really trained well in the types of supplements that would be helpful in certain gene scenarios.
37:29 So for example,, DIM.
37:31 I've never, I'm ever going to say the long version of that because it's way too long and complicated, but it comes from because the first vegetables is in the complementary world, well known as something that can help to bind with, say, extra estrogen carried on the body.
37:49 OK?
37:50 Unfortunately, or fortunately, it comes in lots of different varieties, OK?
37:55 Everyone could do well on some dim once in a while.
37:59 But if you have very fast phase one, you think about like a funnel here.
38:04 So if you have very fast phase one, and you have very slow phase two, dim helps with breaking down more of those compounds to dump them into that funnel.
38:16 And how you speed up that phase, OK, is by eating a raw cruciferous vegetables, by doing things like milk thistle, by, you know, drinking peppermint tea.
38:29 So if you already have a bottleneck here, OK, your space too is just going slow down.
38:35 We cannot throw.
38:37 this, then, you know, going to your local health food store, you know, online thing and think, I should do some dim.
38:44 I read a great article.
38:45 Now you can get this dim and it comes with, oh, great, it comes with milk thistle.
38:49 That's great for everybody.
38:50 Oh, and some peppermint.
38:51 Oh, wonderful.
38:52 You can be doing yourself a disservice by overloading that.
38:57 So yeah.
38:58 We really help people figure out what they need, what they don't need.
39:03 Usually gets them to weed off stuff that they're on that they, it's not all that helpful, you know.
39:07 , and, and just on that, like, for example, a lot of just vitamin mineral supplements, for example, some of the things, so when we look at the all the genetic coding for vitamins.
39:20 A lot of the things that those genes do, these little snips, is they help.
39:26 Activate or translate something from a precursor stage.
39:31 Take vitamin A, beta-carotene, and your orange and yellow and red peppers, for example, your pumpkin, your carrots, OK?
39:38 So when that beta carotene comes into your body, it has to go through a couple of little processes where there is a gene that codes for a protein that then in turn, turns that into retinol, which is the form that we use it in.
39:52 And likewise with,, say,, the, the omega threes,, fatty acids that are found in box seed or walnuts, those need to be converted in the body into the EPA and DHA form of body uses, that's like found in salmon, for example.
40:09 Well, if you don't have the snips.
40:12 Coated in the right way for you to do that.
40:15 And every day you're taking a multivite that has your vitamin A in beta-carotene form, you are wasting your money, OK?
40:25 You actually need to take a vitamin mineral that has it already in the activated form.
40:30 So we help people be able to look.
40:32 What they're already doing, get rid of it.
40:34 If there's some amazing products, different greens products, for example, really well formulated, etc.
40:41 But they've got a lot of different things in them that are not good for certain people.
40:46 So you want to not waste money on supplements that they are not helping you, or they're actually harming you.
40:52 So.
40:53 That is so fascinating.
40:55 And it totally makes sense, you know, you were talking about people take so many supplements and I was laughing because my one of my best friend's husband is a functional medicine doctor, and he's always like, I used to take like everything and he was like, stop taking every supplement you've read an article about, like, let's get this down.
41:13 But I didn't know about like taking like, you know, The different versions of it, like you were saying, so that's really, really cool, that's really fascinating.
41:24 So how does this play into things like autoimmune diseases or autism like are are there things that we can do to turn on and off genes that can help people?
41:35 Yeah, yeah, absolutely, and some of it, I, I, I think my next book is gonna be on,, metabolic health for autism.
41:44 OK, that's what, that's where, that's why I think I'm going, OK,, but it, it has to do with again.
41:51 And looking big picture.
41:54 So what are environmental things that are going on?
41:57 How can we clean up food supply?
42:00 How can we make sure that we're supplementing the things that we need.
42:03 But again, with things like autism and autoimmune disease, a lot of times,,, a component of this is the detoxification, like you mentioned, OK?
42:15 Now, with autism, and this is my next, like I said, area of research I'm gonna plunge into.
42:22 So this is from a very cursory look so far based on the genetic component.
42:27 But I, with, with the range of neurodiversity that you would see on the autism spectrum.
42:34 What happens is there are very many things that are beneficial about some of the gene codings in there, you know, creativity and focus and things like that.
42:48 Where it becomes again that mismatch word, is that where you are with the genetic coding makes it hard for you to exist and easily in the current environment, the current school system, for example, or job environment or whatever.
43:05 So with whatever it is, the goal is to try to make your genes function as well as possible and allow you to function in the way that you most want.
43:18 In the environment that you're in.
43:20 So it's always good to clean up detox, always, always, always, it's always good to eat well, not chew on caffeine, you know, for like 24/7 kind of a deal.
43:29 Reducing things like refined grains and sugar is always helpful.
43:34 Because we know that that impacts metabolic health.
43:36 Now, does that mean you would never have that?
43:38 No, of course not.
43:39 If you can tolerate it and you're not addicted to it, then, you know, having those sometimes things because sometimes food is more than just nourishment and celebration and community and things like that.
43:50 But with any of those instances you mentioned that with autism or with the autoimmune disorders, it would be really peeling apart the different things.
43:59 And then I talked with the client.
44:01 I'm like, OK, is that bothering you?
44:04 Like, is that?
44:05 Making it easier or harder.
44:07 This is how this gene is expressing.
44:09 Are you OK with that?
44:11 Would it be better if we could dampen it a bit so that you, you know, cause I mean, cortisol is great.
44:17 Like I said earlier, like, man, I can get focused and I can just, you know, plow through something.
44:23 But long term paying a price for living at that level.
44:27 And so likewise with someone who has a gene coating that is, you know, not producing enough dopamine, yeah, it helps you to be this and this and this, but you're paying a price for it this way.
44:38 So would it be good if we help support you, get some extra thyrazine, some of the cold factors, the B vitamins that help produce dopamine, get you doing jumping jacks, you know, a couple times a day, 5 minutes, you can elevate your dopamine.
44:51 So with that, you can function better in the environment that you're choosing to be in.
44:57 So yeah, it's really personalized and not labeling anything as, oh, that's, that's gonna be a problem.
45:03 It's like, is that a problem for you?
45:06 You know, or can we tweak it so that you keep the retain the essence of how this gene is helping you express, but let it be less problematic in these circumstances, that kind of thing.
45:19 I love that way of looking at it.
45:21 That's a really beautiful way of working with the client.
45:23 And also, yeah, there's benefits to a lot of these things like we were talking about too, that's really cool.
45:29 And so, I know we don't have a ton of time, but you were mentioning all of the different categories that you and your partner look at, and one of them was reproductive health, and as someone who went through 7 years in fertility, and had to do all the the fertility treatments for years, you know, that.
45:46 It just kind of makes me perk my ears up when I can learn something else about it.
45:50 So I'm curious.
45:52 I mean, everything you know about it, but no, no, I'm just kidding.
45:56 I'm just, I'm curious about, you know, gene expression when it comes to reproductive health.
46:02 Sure.
46:03 So nutritionists or social work workers diagnose or treat.
46:07 So this is all just information, educational information, you obviously would go to your healthcare practitioner.
46:13 What what we do find that's interesting is that with the that category, we can look at several different estrogen genes,, testosterone genes, and then we also look at thyroid genes.
46:28 So even those are not technically rep reproductive health genes.
46:32 , it's interesting the role that thyroid plays in lots of different things, OK?
46:37 So we can look at,, and see if there is too much or too little estrogen being produced.
46:43 We can look at in what form it is might be converted to, is it, is it, is more of it being converted to the 20H, the protective form is more of it being converted to the 40H.
46:55 the less protective, more cancer prone type of form.
46:58 We look at all of that.
47:00 Often with infertility, I have, believe it or not, there is detoxification,, issues going on.
47:09 There's a, there's a gene that is called the COT gene.
47:13 It's a really cool gene, mind you, they're all pretty cool, but it is one of the genes that helps in degrading.
47:20 ,, lots of things, dopamine,, phytoestrogens that are coming in from outside eno estrogens, our own estrogen.
47:29 And if there's something going on there where it's either breaking down, you, you don't have enough estrogen because it's too fast and it's firing it out, so we can look.
47:39 Get the different things.
47:40 We don't look at any progesterone genes yet in the software that we use.
47:46 But we do get some hints as to where there might be issues going on.
47:50 We can also look at, like, often people are not eating enough carbohydrates for their body type.
47:58 And so they might be, or they might be not eating enough food in general.
48:03 I find a lot of women don't eat enough.
48:05 And so a body will slow down, not going to carry a baby to term, not going to produce a baby if there are not enough certain levels of nutrients in the body.
48:13 So we would come at it from a lot of different angles,.
48:17 We also usually do a detoxification, sometimes use some homeopathic, homeopathics to make sure that cycles are happening properly according to moon cycle.
48:29 So there's a, well, a few different things we would do there, but definitely the genetic component can play a factor in that, yeah.
48:37 Yeah, thanks for explaining that.
48:38 You know, every time I have a guest on that could give some hint as to what was going on, I'll just, I'll tell you just what happened with me, and you can just see if there's anything that sparks from your, your expertise.
48:51 So I do have Hashimoto's,, but what was happening was We did IVF a few times, and there's different checkpoints, right?
49:00 There's how many eggs you get, how many fertilize, how many go to the 6 day blastocyst, all that.
49:06 So we were like killing it for all of them.
49:08 We were doing better than average.
49:11 And then the last step is testing the,, testing the chromosomes and every single one of them was chromosomally abnormal every single time, and they all had different abnormalities every time.
49:26 So, I don't know, and our doctor said he's never seen that before.
49:30 So like I've not heard of that either.
49:33 Now you can make me start, start pondering what could possibly have been happening there.
49:38 Wow.
49:39 But and see, here's the thing, I, I unexplained infertility, that's just bullshit to me, right?
49:44 Everything has an explanation, right?
49:46 Everything, just because they don't know it, it's unexplained to them.
49:49 So I'm just on this quest to figure it out.
49:52 So if you happen to come across the answer, you'll have to let me know.
49:55 I, I absolutely will.
49:56 And I think here's the, here's a little caveat in there.
50:00 On this quest for information, which I'm right up there with you from online looking for all this stuff.
50:08 When you said there's no unexplained stuff, I, I agree with you.
50:11 Like there has to be some foundational reason for this.
50:14 I also know that it can drive us crazy trying to find it sometimes.
50:20 And so sometimes it's like, you might just need to put something to rest for a bit until either new information comes out or whatever, so that we are not living in perpetual stress as we are trying to find the answer.
50:33 It's always this tension of, you know, this, but this, I I, I'm not very comfortable with unknown.
50:41 I like to know everything.
50:42 And part of my spiritual journey has been growing more comfortable with not knowing all the answers.
50:49 I'm not there yet, but I'm getting there.
50:52 I was gonna say that's the pastor and the social worker and you coming out.
50:57 And, and yeah, totally.
50:59 I mean, the spiritual side of me is like, I had a soul contract.
51:03 My son is my son for a reason.
51:05 This was all part of my journey, lessons I'm meant to learn, like, I'm there with you.
51:09 But that truth seeker in me is like, I want to learn and I want knowledge and I want to know.
51:14 But yes, I totally, I totally appreciate what you're saying there.
51:18 Yeah.
51:18 Yeah.
51:19 Yeah.
51:19 It's, it's a delicate balance.
51:21 I don't get it right every day.
51:23 Sometimes a lot of days I don't, but I'm working on it.
51:26 Totally.
51:26 , wow, this was such a great conversation.
51:30 An hour flew by.
51:31 I am so grateful for your time.
51:33 If you ever want to come back on, I'd love to have you back on the show.
51:36 We had all these notes of things to talk about that we didn't even touch.
51:39 So,, but you know, let's, Chris.
51:44 You'll get your DNA done and we'll come back and explain to people how it impacted you.
51:49 How's that?
51:50 That's that's amazing.
51:52 I love that idea.
51:53 And, and I also want to hear your explanation on that next episode about how you take this back to ancient philosophies and different religions and faiths and, and yeah, so we've got a lot more to talk about next time.
52:06 , but I'm sure people are just dying to get their DNA done and work with you.
52:12 So tell people how they can work with you and find you and all that.
52:15 Sure.
52:15 So website is Inbalance LM stands for lifestyle Management Inbalancelm.com.
52:22 Right at the very top, it just says, are you interested in personalized nutrition?
52:25 Just click on it, gives you some options free infographic, a little free self-check you can take, and then there's a both a one-off,, just 1.5 kind of consult.
52:35 Or you can do a full,, 12 week program, which we just started again last week for the geeks who want to deep dive.
52:43 OK.
52:43 So those are all available on there.
52:45 And for getting your raw data done, the two forms that I can use in the software.
52:51 One is 23andMe.
52:53 They have a big sale on right now, but you And then when you're airing it, they always have sales on.
52:57 And if you're cautious with 23andME's security measures, then I recommend DNA allure.com.
53:04 I'm not affiliated with them, but they can ship anywhere FedEx does, and they are very secure.
53:09 We'll delete your data right after.
53:11 So you want yourself or your children done.
53:13 I feel like it's much more secure that way.
53:16 Yeah.
53:16 All right.
53:16 Well, thank you so much.
53:18 I really appreciate your time.
53:19 If you're listening to this, please like, share, subscribe, send this to someone you think could use it.
53:24 I think everyone could use this information,, especially because like we were talking about, it's cutting edge, it's new, and let's spread the word.
53:32 So thank you all so much.
53:34 Have a great rest of your day, Brenda, have a great rest of your day too.
53:37 Thank you all.
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