0:02 Hi, everyone.
0:03 Welcome back to the Change Your Mind Podcast.
0:05 I'm your host, Kris Ashley and I'm really excited today.
0:08 I have Tony Wechsler with me.
0:10 Tony is a former investigator who has become a speaker, a trainer and a coach in 2020.
0:17 So I'm definitely gonna ask about that journey since it's so recent and such a different vibe investigator to coach.
0:24 , he is also the host of the Strive to thrive the purposely positive podcast.
0:31 It's a mouthful.
0:32 It's an awesome podcast.
0:34 Check it out.
0:34 I was lucky enough to be a guest.
0:36 Thank you so much for joining Tony.
0:37 I'm excited to have you here.
0:39 Hi, I'm Kris.
0:40 When I was younger, I went through trauma that caused me to feel broken and lost.
0:45 But my life changed after I had a spiritual awakening.
0:49 Since then, I've dedicated my life to studying and learning from masters all around the world that have helped me to create a life of fulfillment and abundance beyond my wildest dreams.
0:58 Now I'm dedicated to sharing everything I've learned so that you don't have to suffer for decades.
1:03 Like I did, I've seen people's lives completely transform and I share it.
1:07 All right here.
1:11 Hey, Kris, I'm excited to be here too.
1:13 Yes.
1:13 And you were a recent guest on my podcast and it's great to,, to come here on yours and to share this positive content with the world, which is really what I'm all about right now.
1:26 Yeah.
1:26 And, and like I just said, I have to ask, how did you go from being an investigator to being a coach with a positive pop podcast?
1:36 Well, very interesting.
1:38 , a lot of things happened to me prior to 2020.
1:43 I was actually to the point where I was getting tired of the whole investigative world.
1:49 You know, I was good at it.
1:50 I was a senior investigator at the end of my time and I was training other investigators to do the work.
1:58 I love the teaching and training aspect of it.
2:00 So again, that ties in and the psychology, the same psychology that I used in breaking cases and doing investigation work, I get to use in working with people.
2:14 I'm looking for evidence of the life that somebody wants to live and I'm looking to find the truth, which is what an investigator does.
2:23 So when I'm working with one of my clients, what is their truth?
2:26 Where do they wanna be?
2:27 What do they wanna do?
2:29 What lights them up at the end of the day?
2:31 Because I don't believe Kris, that we're meant to go through this mediocre or mediocre life where, you know, we're, we're just existing and I think most people are walking around that way, they're walking around an autopilot.
2:43 So, you know, back to my journey.
2:46 So I was thinking of going into sales training and negotiation training.
2:51 I don't know if you're familiar with a book called Never Split The Difference by Chris Voss.
2:56 Chris was a former FBI hostage negotiator and a lot of the things he writes about in his book never split.
3:05 The difference has to do with negotiations because he teaches that.
3:08 And I thought, well, I could teach a lot of the same stuff because that's what I do.
3:12 I can teach sales if I can teach another investigator to take a confession and to have the suspect.
3:20 Thank you.
3:21 After giving that confession, I figured, you know, that's the hardest sale in the world to get somebody to confess to a crime.
3:28 So I figured I could teach somebody else how to sell a car, how to sell insurance.
3:32 So that was my thoughts in 2019.
3:34 So I'm preparing this business plan, getting ready to start this business.
3:38 And then this thing happens.
3:40 We'll just call it the big C because I don't think we're allowed to say the full word anymore, especially on social media.
3:46 But the big c that, that disease is that you.
3:51 Yes.
3:51 And the whole world shut down along with my marketing plan, right?
3:57 How am I going to market this sales training business if the world is shut down.
4:01 So again, making a long story short, I had nothing better to do with my evenings because I wasn't working and I couldn't go anywhere, we couldn't go anywhere.
4:10 So I ended up taking some training.
4:12 I got a mentor.
4:14 I always was,, skilled at N LP because I used it in my investigations, neuro linguistic programming for those who don't know N LP is.
4:23 And I, I got a coach and I found out that the whole world of coaching was something I was really aligned with.
4:31 So in 2020 in May, I started Tony W coaching and have not looked back.
4:38 And then in October, I started the podcast strive to thrive to purposely positive podcast about positive content into the world.
4:48 Because if you remember social media back in 2020 let me tell you people were at each other's throats, you know, they were mad about the pandemic, you know, they were locked down.
5:00 People are arguing, you know, I don't wanna wear a mask.
5:03 Well, you should wear a mask.
5:04 Well, what if I don't want to?
5:05 And you know, well, you're killing people and people were just, there was so much hatred and, and just this negativity.
5:13 And I was watching my feed and I said we need more positive content in the world.
5:18 And that's when I heard that voice that said Tony, that's what you're supposed to do.
5:24 And that's when the podcast began October of 2020.
5:28 I've got,, close to 200 episodes and,, just, it's been a fabulous part of my life because I get to meet people and talk to people from all over the world and share that positive message.
5:43 And,, you know, I was fortunate enough to have you come along on that journey with me and be one of the guests on the show.
5:52 Yeah.
5:52 Wow.
5:53 Thank you so much for sharing all that.
5:55 And you know, I, you're like me during the pandemic.
5:58 I, I wrote a book, I launched two businesses.
6:02 I, you know, it seems like people either got really sucked into the anger and the what I call low vibration, emotions, right?
6:12 The, the anxiety, the fear especially or they, they were like, hey, I have extra time on my hands.
6:20 I'm gonna build something right now.
6:22 I'm gonna be productive and you know, it makes sense that we get along so well and, and vibe so well because we're both on that on that other end.
6:30 It's like, you know, let's, let's make the best of this, right?
6:34 In every challenge, every adversity, there's this golden Easter egg and, and you get to level up if you find it, right?
6:42 So you make the best of it.
6:45 I like that word level up.
6:47 Yeah.
6:47 Yeah.
6:48 And, and every obstacle I view as an opportunity, which I think is huge.
6:54 Yeah.
6:54 And you know, people think I'm crazy and I'm at the point now and you're probably at the same point where I welcome challenges when they come my way because on the other side of that, it's massive growth, right?
7:05 Ok.
7:05 So you said some things that were really, really interesting to me when you were talking about the psychology that you used to investigate was similar to the psychology used in your coaching.
7:14 And I'm curious who your ideal client is, like, who typically works with you?
7:20 And what is the psychology behind that type of person?
7:25 You know?
7:25 Well, I guess, tell me about your ideal client first and then I'll give you my two part question.
7:31 Perfect.
7:31 Well, so I'll have to preface this as well.
7:36 You know, in the coaching world, everyone talks about, oh, you have to niche down, you have to niche down.
7:41 You have to find that, you know, client that you can describe that as a person.
7:46 And, you know, I believe that it helps you when you're putting your message out there.
7:51 However, I tend to see people in all walks of life, but what the common denominator is has to do with burnout frustration.
8:03 People who are just walking through this world knowing that there's something more for them.
8:09 You know, they maybe they have a good job.
8:13 So maybe most of the time there are people who are making a decent income but they just, they're missing something they're missing that, that click in their life.
8:24 You know, that connection, that they're not feeling that connection to what they're doing.
8:29 And they just know there's more, they're burned out.
8:32 You know, we're gonna talk about burnout today and I find that that's another common denominator in my ideal client.
8:38 They're just tired of, of where they are.
8:41 They hate getting up in the morning.
8:43 They dread Monday morning.
8:45 And I like to tell people, I want people to not dread Monday morning, but to start living like every day is Friday because on Friday, you still have to work.
8:55 But you're more excited.
8:57 Well, you're excited because the weekends coming, you're gonna get to do what you wanna do.
9:01 But what about if you could get up Monday morning excited because you're doing what you want to do every single day.
9:07 And that's where I want people to be because when you're living a life like that, you're happier.
9:13 You're more positive again, purposely positive, you're positive with a purpose and you're able to spread that joy to others and make this world a more positive place.
9:26 Ok.
9:27 So thank you for describing that.
9:30 I, yes, I totally understand that type of person.
9:33 So I'm curious, what is the psychology based on your experience as an investigator?
9:39 What is the psychology behind someone who is feeling burnt out, who is feeling unfulfilled, who wants to re invent themselves?
9:47 Tell us a little bit about that.
9:50 Ok.
9:51 So I, again, I use a lot of N LP.
9:55 Yeah.
9:55 And I'm gonna ask you all about that too.
9:57 000, yeah.
9:58 Oh, yeah.
10:00 , and that really comes into play but when you're talking to somebody,, a lot of people, we walk around wearing masks every day.
10:12 I think about these phones that we have now.
10:15 All right.
10:15 They have these things on them called filters and we use filters.
10:20 We live in a filtered life.
10:21 Everything we present on social media is filtered and what I wanna do is I wanna dig through and I wanna get to that person who is that person on the inside.
10:32 So if I was talking to you, Kris as a client in that relationship, say who is Chris on the inside?
10:39 Who is the person that Kris was born to be?
10:43 And by doing that, I have to ask a lot of questions.
10:47 I use things like the Myers Briggs personality profile, which if you're familiar with that and I don't want to get into it too much because it can get complicated.
10:58 But basically, there are four characteristics that, that we all have.
11:02 We introverted versus extroverted.
11:04 And that doesn't necessarily mean a social person or a nonsocial.
11:08 It just means how you, how you relax at the end of the day, you know how you unwind.
11:14 Do you do that?
11:15 You gain your energy from being around people or do you do gain your energy sitting around maybe reading a book or something.
11:22 Now, I like to do both but I am more of an extrovert and then there's thinker versus feeler and that's pretty self explanatory.
11:29 There's intuitive people, people like me who rely on their intuition or there's people who are sensors who rely on their basic senses of sight, smell, hearing and so forth.
11:42 And then the last one is, and it's a very, they use very strange terms here.
11:47 Myers Briggs, Myers Briggs were a mother daughter team who,, took the work of Carl Jung,, who's one of my favorites in the world of psychology.
11:57 And they created that person, this personality profile and there's a lot of personality profiles we can get into.
12:02 I tend to like Myers Briggs because it, it's pretty simple and easy to understand.
12:07 But I digress ad D boy, here I go off on tangents.
12:11 So judger versus perceiver.
12:15 Those are terrible terms, but a judger is basically one of these organized people.
12:19 You've met people like that, Kris, right?
12:21 Where everything has to be on a schedule and, you know, there's no flexibility.
12:25 You know, these are the people who, you know, they have to write everything down.
12:29 You know, they're, they're usually the really neat people have everything totally organized in their room.
12:34 You go in, you go into their garage and all their tools are hung up perfectly and then you have the perceiver, the perceiver is like the go with the flow guy.
12:43 , you know, you living in California, you'd understand the server dude.
12:47 Personality.
12:48 Yeah, let's do whatever we want.
12:50 So that's more like me.
12:52 I'm more of a go with the flow kind of guy if you saw what my desk looked like.
12:56 Yeah, you organize people like they, you know, that they go crazy.
13:01 That's why I'm very happy to have the world of zoom because you can kind of hide all that coming back to what we were talking about before.
13:11 Yeah, exactly.
13:11 Exactly.
13:12 I don't have to clean.
13:15 So I use a lot of that type of psychology to figure out where a person is, you know, what kind of, what kind of person they are.
13:25 And then I ask the two most important questions are, what do you want to achieve?
13:32 You know, and what do you want to avoid?
13:35 Because those are really, you know, the crux of everything.
13:40 Most people believe it or not, they can tell you what they want to avoid, they can tell you what they don't like, you know, but it's hard for them to tell you what they want because they really haven't thought about it.
13:51 So funny like that, isn't it?
13:53 Yeah, it isn't.
13:55 It.
13:55 It's crazy how, how that is.
13:56 So when you get them to start focusing on that then,, that's when the magic starts to happen.
14:03 So I don't know if that answers your full question.
14:05 But,, we, we can keep going.
14:08 I mean, it, it got part way there and I'm fascinated by everything you're talking about.
14:13 And I told you before the show, we're gonna talk about burnout.
14:15 We might not even talk about burnout today because I just, I, I'm gonna follow whatever trail that you're intriguing me with.
14:22 So I want to hear more about this.
14:23 So, is there a Myers brigg personality that most people who, you know, are experiencing burnout or unfulfillment or want to re invent themselves or do they typically fall into one specific category?
14:38 I haven't found any specific category where people are falling into.
14:43 It's pretty much, it's everywhere.
14:45 Although I did find that the more extroverted people were experiencing more burnout when we had those lockdowns.
14:54 Those were the people who were going crazy because they just, they were craving being around people.
15:00 There's another interesting thing going on right now in the world and it's called The Great Resignation.
15:06 Yeah.
15:07 And people are leaving their job or even thinking about leaving their job more than ever right now.
15:14 And this is exactly, these are exactly the people that I work with and it's really opened up a lot of opportunity because, you know, they're frustrated, they're burned out and, you know, I wanna help them, but, you know, taking a little back to, to psychology, what is psychology?
15:35 So this is how I define it.
15:38 Well, let me ask you first, Chris, how would you define the word psychology?
15:45 I think, understanding how the human mind and consciousness works.
15:50 That's a good, yeah, that's a pretty fair definition.
15:53 What, how I define it is your beliefs and thoughts about three things about you, about others and about the world around you.
16:06 Hm.
16:07 So what our psychology really relates to is our mindset and it has to do, a lot with, with where we are in the world.
16:20 Our personal psychology defines where we are in the world and notice how I said your, your beliefs and your thoughts.
16:29 Because there's basically, if you, if you wanna have things in your life, if you wanna go after your goals and achieve your goals and a lot of things that we do as coaches work with helping people to get their goals.
16:41 Well, the formula is simply this, these four words, it starts with think, remember, psychology is your belief in thoughts.
16:49 Well, think, what we think about our thoughts, what we think about turns into how we feel our thoughts, determine our emotions.
17:00 And then what we feel is actually what determines what we do because there are things Chris that we think we should do, we know we should probably do.
17:10 But unless we really feel it, unless we have an emotional reason for that emotional motivation, we're not gonna do those things.
17:17 You know, let me give you a perfect example of that is I am not a morning person.
17:23 Now, I would as a coach, I would smack me for saying that because that was an I AM statement and we never want to give I AM statements to things that are, that are negative, negative or, or that define us because I am whoever I wanna be, right?
17:38 But characteristically, I've never been a person that like, you know, jumps up out of bed at, you know, five in the morning going.
17:46 Yes, I wanna get, you know, I've done it for years.
17:49 I don't know, I've gotten up early for a year but, you know, if I could choose my ideal world, I would not be that.
17:56 Now, where was I going with this CB AD D boy here?
18:02 OK.
18:02 All right.
18:03 So I, I was, I was talking about how our, our thoughts and our feelings, determine what we do.
18:09 So I can think about how important it is for me to get up early every single day.
18:14 You know, gee if I got up, I could do this, this, this and this, but until I have an emotional reason for doing it, it's gonna make it hard to do it.
18:23 So that's why everything we do has to do with our emotions.
18:28 because our emotions determine what we do.
18:31 So now memorize that there's four words, think, feel do and the last word is have because what we do, the action that we take determines what we have in life.
18:42 So you have to go through that whole formula and that's what gets you to setting your goals, writing them down to actually having them.
18:53 You gotta go from thinking to feeling and feeling, to doing and then doing turns into having.
19:00 So that's a little roundabout answer.
19:02 But,, I hope that helps you.
19:03 And,, those listening.
19:06 Yeah, I mean, it makes sense because if you think about, I, I own a yoga company too and I think about January.
19:13 January, the studios are packed right with everyone's New Year's resolutions and then by March it's the same regulars that we always have.
19:22 Right?
19:22 Because people think, oh, I should lose weight or I should be healthier or I should get in shape.
19:28 But unless they make that a priority in their life, which comes from a strong emotion, which creates the right leverage, right?
19:37 It's all about leverage then, then it's not gonna happen.
19:40 They're not gonna stick with it.
19:41 And it's interesting that you said a lot of people after a lot of people after,, or just come to you with the great resignation thing.
19:54 That's what I was going with.
19:55 But the great resignation, it makes sense that it's happening right now because during the pandemic, people were realizing like, oh, hey, there's more to life, right?
20:03 Than just like eat work, sleep money, entertainment, right?
20:06 Repeat and you know, they're home, they're with their people, they care about their, their able to give time to their hobbies or able to have time to exercise and then going back to the office is a major culture shock, right?
20:21 You're back under those fluorescent lights.
20:23 9 to 5.
20:24 But the commute and you're thinking, hey, there's more to life than this, right?
20:29 This is not what we're meant to experience as human beings.
20:33 So I want to talk a little bit about N LP with you because I it's really fascinating.
20:37 Can you define what N LP is for listeners who might not know N LP is neuro linguistic programming.
20:46 And I hate the word programming because it sounds like you can program, you know, like a computer, but in essence, we program ourselves, right?
20:55 Our words and our thoughts determine what we do.
20:58 Language has a lot to do with neuro linguistic programming, the words we use in our language.
21:06 There are things that we can do in our conversation and you know, this is again off topic a little bit, but to answer that question in sales, I use a lot of things like embedded commands and embedded suggestions.
21:23 So you can have a conversation with someone and you can start embedding these things so that their subconscious mind will pick those things up.
21:35 So, you know, for example, if I was selling you something, the f the, the first thing I would say, well, well, Chris, it's not necessary, it's not necessary for you to really want to buy this product.
21:48 But as you think about that in the back of your mind, I hope you'll realize that a great decision is being made.
21:56 Hm.
21:56 Now, what exactly did I say there?
22:00 You said that if you buy it, you're making a great decision.
22:04 Yeah.
22:04 Yeah.
22:05 But I didn't actually come right out and say that I, I used a lot of processed, processed language there that the subconscious mind will pick up.
22:14 And that's something that I learned.
22:15 And I added a couple of embedded suggestions.
22:18 I said it's not necessary for you to which basically is a softener because it's not necessary for you to do something, right?
22:26 But it's not necessary.
22:27 It's not necessary for you to buy that car or buy this car.
22:31 Well, I just gave you an embedded command by this car and then I ga I gave you access, but as you think about it, so what are you gonna be doing?
22:42 You're gonna be thinking about it.
22:43 So it's all in how we lose, how we use our language.
22:47 The other thing in neurolinguistics programming is everyone processes things on and five basic levels.
22:58 It's visual auditor auditory, which is with our, our hearing kinesthetic.
23:05 And then there's gustatory and olfactory olfactory is the, is the smell and then gustatory is taste.
23:12 And usually I, I try to keep it simpler and I lump those into the kinesthetic part because that way you only have to deal with three, but you'll notice when people are talking to you, they'll use a lot of words, a visual person will say.
23:29 So, you know, something like, yeah, I see that or or Yeah.
23:35 Yeah.
23:35 II I can trying to think of another visual word there.
23:41 My mind is banks but auditory they'll say they'll say, yeah, I, I hear you.
23:46 I hear what you're saying or it sounds like it sounds like you are thinking about this or someone who is more,, kinesthetic will say, you know, you know, it feels like or yeah, I feel you things like that.
24:01 So they'll use more words that, have to do with their modality, whether they're visual, whether they're auditory or whether they're kinesthetic.
24:11 And what I usually do is I try to take these things and I try to,, move them around a little bit because that way I don't have to pay attention, you know, I'm basically lazy, right?
24:23 I don't wanna have to pay attention to what that person is eventually.
24:25 II I can listen and figure it out.
24:28 , because listening is, is important and that we could get into a hold of the topic on the importance of listening because, you know, as coaches, but as people, as human beings in general, most people don't listen to what other people are saying, they listen to respond rather than listen to understand.
24:43 And one of the things that I will do is when I'm having a conversation with somebody, I listen to what they say and then I try to repeat back a lot of their own words back to them because you know what the most important words any human being will hear are the words that just came out of their own mouth.
25:00 And if you can tap into their modality, they'll feel more understood.
25:05 Does that make sense?
25:06 Totally.
25:06 So, my next question was, how did you use N LP for both investigating and coaching?
25:11 But it sounds like that's a great answer right there, right?
25:13 Because you're, you're making people feel seen and heard, right?
25:17 Just by using their own language and doesn't it?
25:20 You know, I, I remember it being a little bit more than even the language, right?
25:24 Isn't it?
25:25 Things like body language too, doesn't N LP.
25:27 Incorporate that?
25:28 Can you talk a little bit about that too?
25:30 Because it's just, it's so fascinating is totally, it's so fascinating.
25:35 Mirroring is something that they talk about now.
25:38 Mirroring has gotten a bad rap because people really don't know how to do it, right?
25:43 So the example of mirroring, mirroring would be you're at a meeting with somebody, they cross their arms like this, you know, I don't know if you can see me here but they, they cross their arms.
25:56 So then you mirror that by crossing your arms, you know, and if you keep doing this, most people will eventually pick up on it, especially since most people aren't subtle, you gotta be more subtle when you do this, Chris.
26:11 Like, like if they fold their arms, like, right up high, well, then maybe all you do is you put your hands down in front of you and you fold your hands, you do it a little more subtle.
26:21 You know, there's,, there's the whole thing, you know, if they, if they touch their face then you go and touch your face, you know.
26:28 Well, if you do, if you do it, it's too obvious what you, what you really want to be doing is you want to be getting in rapport and you'll find that when you're naturally in rapport with somebody and watch this, you know, I'm a avid people watcher, go out to a restaurant tonight and watch people.
26:48 So, do you know,, like, for example, when two people are together and they have this natural,, what's the word for?
26:57 Two?
26:58 Chemistry?
26:59 Yes.
27:00 They have this natural chemistry and this,, there's another word to them.
27:03 I'm thinking of.
27:04 , anyway,, this deep connection and chemistry and when they have that you'll, you'll notice that they automatically get into rapport, they'll start to move toward each other.
27:17 So I like to play a game sometimes when I go out to a place like that, you know, I'll tell the person with me and I go, ok, tell me everybody's story.
27:28 Go, look at that table, you know, are, is this coworkers, are they friends?
27:33 Are they a married couple?
27:35 And just by watching the chemistry and how they mirror each other because again, it's something that we naturally do.
27:41 So what you do is if you pay attention to that person and if you become truly interested in what they're saying, and again, Chris, when I was doing investigation, some of these people were people that you would not want to be in rapport with because they were not nice people, they were not good people.
27:58 But if you followed them and there's another thing that called pacing and leading and it has to do with your tone of voice.
28:08 People tend to like people who are like they are.
28:12 So if someone came into my office and they were all upset and agitated and everything like that, if I walked right in, if I tried to calm them by talking in a very calm voice, like the FM DJ voice or the yoga voice like this, if I did that right away now, that will help them.
28:32 But the thing is if you're in a high intensive state and someone comes at you in a low state, there's gonna be a contrast.
28:40 So you have to lead them into that level.
28:45 So I would come in and I, I would be at their level.
28:48 So they would say, well, you know, I don't understand why I got to be in here and it's like, hey, look, I can totally understand why you would not want to be here.
28:56 But listen, we really need to get to the bottom of this and as we talk and as we go through these questions, I really want to help you.
29:05 And then, you know, that's how I kind of led that I started at their level and I slowed it down and you'll know that they rapport with you if they do the same thing and that, that's how, that's how you'll feel that conversation.
29:19 So, again, you know, this would take hours to go through all of the, the details of the things that, that we used to do.
29:27 But I will tell you if you want to be 30% more successful, everybody pay attention here.
29:38 This is like a key moment, folks.
29:40 If you wanna be 30% successful in anything that you do, what you need to do is go into it with a relaxed, fun and playful.
29:50 Let's see what happens.
29:51 Attitude.
29:52 Get curious, get playful and when you do that, you will become 30% more successful in anything you do.
30:01 And you know where I got this from FBI hostage negotiators because they find they find they found out that the negotiator who went in with that playful and on again, we're in a stressful situation but a more playful, more relaxed.
30:19 Let's see what happens attitude.
30:22 They were 30% more successful in their negotiations.
30:26 And it's a universal thing.
30:28 It happens everywhere in the world.
30:30 Why do you think that is, what's the psychology behind that?
30:34 That's hard to say.
30:36 I, I think when you're more relaxed, that translates to other people being more relaxed and because we are, we're magnets.
30:46 Are you familiar with?
30:47 Heart math?
30:48 Yeah.
30:49 Yeah.
30:49 Yeah.
30:50 So, when two people are in a room together and when they're sitting our, our heartbeats synchronized together and, you know, have you seen the video with the metronomes?
31:04 Oh Yeah.
31:04 Yeah.
31:05 Yeah.
31:05 Yeah.
31:06 I I think I posted that on social.
31:09 Mhm Yeah.
31:09 It's pretty, pretty amazing.
31:11 And I think that's, that's the concept here.
31:14 That's the concept.
31:15 It's just like when, when you when you are in report with somebody.
31:19 So again, we were gonna talk about burnout today but while we're on this topic, if anyone out there would like to learn how to be super successful in any of their relationships, whether it's business networking or even their, you know, romantic relationships.
31:39 I'm gonna give you like, this is the secret sauce and what this is and this is what I teach in my sales influence and persuasion.
31:47 And it's, it's an echoing technique.
31:52 So what you have to do is you have to remember the last three words and then you have to remember the phrase, the three phrases it feels like it sounds like and it seems like.
32:10 So let's role play a little bit Chris.
32:13 So, so tell me about your morning.
32:17 How have things been going for you today?
32:18 , my morning's been pretty mellow actually.
32:23 , actually I was telling you before we got on this call, my days are usually booked morning to night and today it has been pretty relaxed.
32:31 I got to sleep in 30 minutes later than usual.
32:34 Got some cuddles with my puppy this morning, made some breakfast, had a few calls and then I got to jump on here with you.
32:42 It sounds like things have been going pretty mellow for you today then.
32:46 Yeah, it does sound like that.
32:48 Did I say?
32:49 It sounds like I don't even know.
32:52 Yeah.
32:52 II, I don't know, but I, I just picked that to use.
32:57 , yeah, so let's say, you know, in continuing that, that conversation, I said, oh, I would say it sounds like it was a pretty mellow day for you so far.
33:06 Yeah, it's been great and, and a much needed relaxing morning after a lot of really busy days this week.
33:14 So I'm, I'm going on vacation tomorrow, two days in two days.
33:19 And I, I feel like I'm slowly getting into vacation mode, slowly getting into vacation mode.
33:27 Yeah.
33:27 Yeah.
33:28 You know, remember you were saying live every day, like it's Friday.
33:31 I'm, I'm in that Friday state of mind because it's Friday right now.
33:34 So everything's, everything's pretty chill today.
33:38 It's a pretty calm day.
33:39 I've got a bunch of calls with some great people who might be on the podcast and I'm excited for that and, and yeah, and you're excited for that.
33:49 You sound like you're excited for that.
33:51 So you love connecting with.
33:54 Yeah, I love connecting with people too.
33:56 So when you connect with somebody, how does that feel for you?
34:02 It feels exciting.
34:03 You know, I, one thing that I've been loving about these podcasts is just the incredible people that I've met.
34:09 And that's me as a guest on other shows too.
34:12 You know, I went, I went on all these other shows.
34:14 I've been on 70 podcasts over the last few months just to promote my book.
34:18 And I've ended up having so many incredible connections and, you know, sometimes people come on my show, like you are other people, I'm collaborating with and meeting other people through them.
34:29 And I love having these amazing conversations with like minded people.
34:34 So I'm, I'm very happy right now.
34:37 I'm living the dream over here.
34:39 You're living the dream and it sounds like you're making some really great connections.
34:44 Yeah, I like what you do.
34:46 I see what you're doing.
34:47 Yeah, you're, yeah, you're reaffirming everything I'm saying.
34:51 Yeah.
34:52 Yep.
34:52 Yep.
34:53 And here's another thing, even if someone tells you something that you disagree with, you can still affirm something that they said, but it involves really listening.
35:07 And I think when I teach people to do this, you know, I've had people come to me, I, I had a client I was working with, that was,, probably a good, maybe eight months ago.
35:19 And after I started working with, I was working with him on his business to try to get him to,, you know, he was working crazy hours and just things weren't going and he just wanted to hire me as a business coach to try to give him some better ideas.
35:34 Well, about a month after I started working with him, his wife called me and wanted to buy me a gift because their marriage was in, you know, on the rocks before, he started working.
35:46 You know, they were arguing all the time.
35:48 You know, I think they thought they were gonna end up in divorce court and through working with me, you know, one of the things I taught him was the importance of listening and paying attention to those things and also to taking some much needed time off and, and I got some productivity and one of the key things about productivity is scheduling time to be with, you know, your family and people that you wanna spend time with, because at the end of your life, you're not gonna regret that you didn't spend enough hours in the office, you're gonna regret the time that you spent with those people in your life that you love and you truly wanna be with.
36:24 So I got that call and,, and, and she was just, just overjoyed at, you know, the change in him and part of that was teaching how to listen.
36:39 And when I,, I had another experience that was pretty funny and I was teaching a whole bunch of investigators this and I used to go around and teach investigation workshops and, to other investigators in New York State where I live and, you know, you wanna talk about a tough crowd, right?
36:59 I mean, as a speaker, I can get up in front of pretty much any crowd because I've, I've been in front of tough crowds before.
37:06 anyway, I was teaching them this, this echoing technique that I, I just showed you and I had one guy said, there's no way that's gonna work.
37:15 And I looked at him, I said, no way that's gonna work.
37:18 And he says, oh yeah, that's crazy.
37:20 People are gonna pick up on that right away and, and you know, you know, you're, you're not gonna fool anybody really.
37:26 You don't think I want to fool anybody.
37:27 And I just went with this over and over again for, we went for like 10 minutes and all in the crowd is probably dying, laughing, right?
37:37 Yeah, they were all dying laughing.
37:39 And I told them at, at, at the end, I said, well, you realize that I've been doing this to you for like maybe the last 10 minutes.
37:46 And he looked at me and you know, have you ever seen that cartoon where, you know, the old cartoons where somebody has hot sauce and all the red goes up through there.
37:59 I saw this happen but then he looked at me and he says, you know, he says you, you're, you're right.
38:05 So, you know, try to get caught when you have these discussions because people are craving.
38:13 They wanna be listened to.
38:14 One of the reasons that people are so burned out today is that people are so busy in their own worlds and they, you know, they just want people to listen, they want relationships.
38:27 The thing about that COVID period is, is people were craving the relationships with people.
38:33 So listen to people and when you go to like a networking event, you know, don't stand up and, and you know, most people go to go to them.
38:42 You've been to those right where the person just stands up and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
38:46 Oh, yeah, I do this, I do this, I do this and they just keep telling about themselves and you know, OK, that's fine.
38:52 You wanna tell people what you do but maybe try listening a little more, try spending maybe 70% of your time listening and maybe the other 30% talking and your whole world I think will change.
39:07 I love it.
39:07 I'm gonna try this tonight on my husband and see how it works.
39:11 Oh, you gotta tell me how, how it comes out.
39:14 Yeah.
39:14 You know, have you ever read the book how to win friends and influence people?
39:18 Yep.
39:19 It makes me think of that.
39:20 One of the things I really took away from that is kind of what you were saying.
39:24 People just want to talk about themselves.
39:26 Right.
39:26 So, if you want, if you're at a party or a networking event and you want people to love, you just ask questions about them because all they want to do is talk about them.
39:36 So, you know, it might, it might not be the most exciting for you in the beginning, but you're gonna, you're gonna find out some fascinating things about a person, you know.
39:47 So I think it's also about switching your mind to, to stop talking about yourself and to get interested in fellow human beings, right?
39:57 That's how you make connections, that's how you make connections, you get interested.
40:01 Exactly.
40:01 Which is what now the funny thing is what I just did.
40:05 I repeated kind of what you said, but I was, I was confirming that I agree with you.
40:13 But at the same time, it's something that I naturally do because I've been doing it for so long, right?
40:18 When, when you start doing this, it just becomes a part of who you are.
40:22 And that's when things will start happening for you.
40:25 That's when your success will start to come.
40:27 That's when your life will begin to change because you'll be walking through the world with a new pair of eyes and a new pair of ears because you'll start getting curious about other people.
40:38 And really this world is a fascinating place.
40:41 Yes, there are a lot of bad people.
40:43 You know, I dealt with that all the time.
40:46 I mean, you know, I'm trying to have conversations and I'm gonna, you know, bring back my old investigator world.
40:54 , but, you know, I was talking to people who did some, some, some pretty nasty things and I have to get curious about them.
41:03 I have to be able to, have that have a, some type of a bond with them to the point where they will feel comfortable enough to open up with me and to give me that information.
41:15 And,, so I have to be able to find things, you know, that I can agree with and,, you know, it was tough.
41:24 So when you do this with regular people at a networking event, you know, compared to what I used to do, it's pretty easy.
41:34 Yeah.
41:34 You know, just out of curiosity is there, is there any part of you as you were talking to these people as you were connecting to them that just saw the humanity in them and, and felt for them and empathized with them.
41:48 You know, not necessarily with the actions they've taken, but, you know, people who do horrendous things are coming from a place of deep inner pain.
41:57 Right.
41:58 They probably had very little love growing up and, you know, people who intentionally hurt others, like the worst offenders out there, the rapists, the, the people who are the murderers, you know, they have a gaping hole in their soul.
42:11 Right.
42:12 They, they're disconnected from love.
42:14 They're disconnected from their true self.
42:15 They're disconnected from any kind of higher source and they're frustrated, they're lonely.
42:20 They're, they're, they're feeling disconnected and lost and, you know, I try to remind myself of this often, especially thinking about everything that's going on right now in the world.
42:32 , but I'm just curious if that ever came up for you as an investigator.
42:39 It did,, it did quite a bit actually,, especially when I was doing a lot of fraud cases which was primarily,, what, what I did in my,, investigative world.
42:50 I, I didn't do usually like the homicide cases, you know, that wasn't,, that was a different,, a different realm.
42:58 , not that I couldn't have used the same skills or, you know, for those types of cases, but I dealt with a lot of fraud cases, people who were basically cheating the system and,, taking advantage of different things and,, you know, a lot of those people were also involved in,, you know, in other crimes and they, they were confessed to that.
43:19 I did a lot of identity theft cases as well.
43:22 But,, but, yeah, yeah, you you saw deep down that,, you know, let me give you an example.
43:30 So someone who had been,, been cheating the system for a while,, maybe,, they were, they were not reporting income that they actually had so they could get more,, more money from the government.
43:44 And,, so I would just look at them and I, and I would say, hey, you know, iii, I see what's going on.
43:51 I said it's a tough world out there.
43:53 Yeah.
43:54 And again, they, they can agree that, you know, and I, another thing that, that we will do is sometimes you nod your head a little bit subtly but and, and you watch for them to do the same thing.
44:04 So you get an agreement with that and I said, yeah, you were just doing what you could provide for your family.
44:11 So, and at this point, they're still in the denial stage.
44:14 They don't want to tell you what they do.
44:16 They don't want to admit to it, but you're saying, hey, I get it, you know what I got a family too, you know, I, I've got a couple of kids and personally I would do everything that I could to provide for that family.
44:28 And, you know, I can see that you're, you, you're a person like that so you focus on again what you can agree with and yeah, seeing their humanity.
44:40 So, you know, I think we really as human beings, you know, one of the things that we long for is is love and connection, but we also long for significance.
44:53 and we also long for certainty and we long for variety and these are like the main human needs, right?
45:01 We all wanna be, we all wanna be loved in, in some way, we all wanna be significant to someone somewhere in some way.
45:12 We all wanna have certainty.
45:13 We all wanna know that we're gonna get a paycheck every day.
45:17 We're, we're gonna get up the next day, you know, and,, and some of us like a little bit of variety in our life.
45:24 So if we can connect with people in those areas and understand where they're coming from, you know, in meeting their needs and again, more psychology there.
45:37 Right.
45:37 .
45:40 Mhm.
45:40 Let me talk a little bit about street gangs that we see a lot of that big problem right now.
45:47 Why do people get involved in gangs?
45:50 Well, because the gang is meeting their needs in those areas, they're feeling like they belong to something which gives them a feeling of significance.
46:04 It gives them a feeling of certainty.
46:06 I mean, how much more significance and importance can, can you get, then, you know, you're pointing a gun at somebody and they're, and they're doing what you tell them to do.
46:15 You're that you, you're the head honcho, you're significant there, right.
46:19 So you're dealing with significance.
46:20 And in a way, you know, they're, they're dealing with love because they're in connection because they're connected to something everyone wants to be part of something bigger than what they are.
46:30 So it's all about meeting, meeting hu human needs and everyone has, has some primary human needs.
46:37 And if you can find out where their primary needs are, then you can, you can really motivate somebody and again, motivating somebody to tell me the truth and a confession or motivating somebody to make those decisions in their life that will give them a better life, a life of purpose, a life of passion, a life worth living a life out of mediocrity and a life breaking free from burnout.
47:06 Yeah, I love it and I love how you brought it back around and I know we're getting close on time here, but I'm just gonna ask you one more question.
47:14 You know, how do you use, if you know someone's primary need, how do you use that to motivate them in the coaching world?
47:24 You have to find a way that to make what their goal is meet their primary need more than anything else.
47:39 So, I'll give you I, I'll give you a good example.
47:46 You have somebody who, whose primary need is let's say it's just significance.
47:54 Let's use that.
47:56 So you have to mo so you'll motivate them because if their goal is, let's say they Well, let's say their goal, I was gonna say if their goal is to start a business, but someone who, who has a basic need of significance wants to start a business because they want to feel important, right?
48:15 So if they're gonna start a business, you, you, you need to come at them in a way that, hey, you know, by building up this business, you know, you can be your own boss, you'll be in charge, you'll be the one that people turn to.
48:28 So that's how using that significance, helps them.
48:33 If they're, if they're motivated more by love and connection, then you can talk about how building that business and how, you know, taking these steps.
48:45 Now again, going back to the beginning early in the conversation, I talked about those, those words, think, feel do and have, well using those basic needs.
49:01 That is a great way to take somebody from thinking about something to actually feeling it.
49:08 Because if it, if it's important to you, if it's meeting your need, then there's gonna be an emotional component to it, you know, and the one thing I I wanna mention is, and this is totally off topic and totally off your question.
49:23 But ad D boy again is when it comes to emotions and when it comes to this thing, we call affirmations.
49:33 Now, I'm sure you're familiar with the world of affirmations.
49:38 Everyone wants to do these affirmations because you know that they they wanna change the way they think about things and,, and they wanna go after a goal.
49:49 So they'll say things like I am healthy, wealthy and wise or, you know, whatever.
49:53 , well, here, here's the thing, whenever you say your affirmations,, you want to come at them from a, a good emotional standpoint.
50:05 , so what I'm saying is a lot of people will start their affirmations when they're feeling bad.
50:09 They're having a rough day at work like, oh, I need to just say my affirmations.
50:13 Well, if you're coming at it from, from that state, it's not gonna help you.
50:18 You wanna go into those affirmations.
50:20 When you're in a high emotional state, you wanna get yourself.
50:24 That's why in think and grow rich.
50:26 For example, it talks about when you read your statement, you wanna feel it.
50:32 So when you talk about your goals, like, you know, I will have this particular house and I know, you know, a lot about this because, you know, you wrote a whole book, you know about about this sort of thing and how the importance of what we think and what we feel can help us to attain our goals.
50:52 So we need to get, get our emotions involved.
50:54 Again, it's, it all has to do with that formula, you know, from moving from, from just thinking about something to feeling it because it isn't until we have the, that will actually act on it.
51:06 And so this kind of goes back to the, well, what you had asked me about,, about knowing what somebody's need, basic needs are and what their most important needs are and what they're trying to meet because that's how you can hit somebody in a more emotional level.
51:21 Ok.
51:22 Can you answer one more question in one minute?
51:25 Yeah, I know.
51:26 That's, that's hard for me to, yeah, it's, it's a good, it's a good exercise, right?
51:31 Because I know we're, we're really at time crunch.
51:33 But how do you figure out what someone's primary need is what their primary motivation?
51:37 If it's significance?
51:38 If it's you know, stability, if it's love and connection, how do you figure that out?
51:44 The simple answer in one minute is you just gotta listen and pay attention and get curious about it, you know, look at them and say what is your basic need?
51:58 So, if I were, you know, to, to have a conversation with you right now, I could probably tell you that there, there, see there, now there's two other basic needs that we didn't talk about then what they are is their growth and contribution.
52:15 And I can see that growth is one of your strong motivators right now.
52:23 Growth.
52:25 And and I think you're from what, what I can tell, remember I, I said, I said there's certainty.
52:33 I think at one point in your life, you were motivated by certainty.
52:36 But I think now you're, you're more motivated by,, variety.
52:44 That's interesting.
52:44 Yeah.
52:45 When so,, you know, Tony Robbins teaches all this and the last time I was at, upw unleashed the power within those are the two I chose.
52:53 It was growth and variety.
52:55 So there you go, you gotta focus it on your, focus it on your intuition.
53:02 We've been given everything that we need in life to succeed.
53:06 The problem is we just don't know how to use it.
53:08 And as a coach and as, even as a speaker, that's how I teach people.
53:13 So,, just get curious, you know, if I can go back to what I said before, you know, if anyone wants to take anything, take any little nugget from this conversation today, go out there in the world and get curious about people, listen to them, listen more and,, just pay attention and you'll be surprised at what people give you Tony.
53:41 I feel like you and I could talk forever and I could listen to you forever and I could talk about all this forever.
53:46 , I know you had a hard stop.
53:48 So I'm, I'm gonna end it.
53:50 But thank you so much for coming on.
53:52 I, I, I'm so glad we got to continue the conversation that we started at your podcast.
53:57 So everyone go check out Tony's,, really quick.
54:00 Can you let people know where they can find you and then it'll also be in the show notes too.
54:04 Well, the easiest way to find me is,, is through my website, which is TonyWcoaching.com.
54:11 Very easy.
54:12 Tony.
54:12 And then my last name, just my last initial is w,, I thought it was easier than having people spell Wechsler.
54:18 , you can also,, find me in,, on Facebook,, by just looking up my name.
54:27 There's not too many Tony Wechsler's out there, but then they have to spell it, but they can find that on the website.
54:32 And it's strive to thrive the purposely positive podcast.
54:37 I purposely made the name long because if you Google it, it's the first one that comes out.
54:42 If you just Google strive to thrive, you're gonna find a lot of other things.
54:46 But if you add purposely positive podcast, it'll be the first thing that comes up.
54:50 So,, check me out on my website, send me a note DM me, whatever, say hello.
54:57 And,, you know, I'd love to have a conversation with, with anybody,, about these things, about their goals, about what they want to do in their life and about breaking free from burnout.
55:09 And again, we didn't get into that topic today.
55:11 Maybe we'll do it again another time.
55:13 Yeah.
55:14 Yeah, we had a big plan.
55:15 , but I like these to be conversations, right.
55:17 So it, it's kind of wherever the conversation naturally goes.
55:20 And I think what we talked about today was really fascinating.
55:23 So, thank you so much for everyone.
55:25 Tuning in.
55:25 Please like share, subscribe, check out my book, change your Mind to change your reality.
55:30 It's available in the audiobook ebook paperback and this podcast is part of the L A Tribune Podcast Network.
55:37 We do a lot of really cool stuff.
55:39 Tony mentioned, think and Grow Rich.
55:41 This coming weekend, October 14th to 16th.
55:43 We're partnering with the Think and Grow Rich Institute some to put on a virtual summit, think and grow rich virtual summit.
55:50 I'm on a panel there.
55:52 There's some amazing headliners, Les Brown, Mary Morrissey, Neil Donald Walsh Bob Doyle.
55:57 So check it out and keep an eye out on us because we're doing a lot of cool stuff.
56:01 Thank you all so much.
56:02 Have a beautiful rest of your day.
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