0:00 Hi, everyone.
0:01 Welcome back to the Change Your Mind podcast.
0:03 I'm your host, Kris Ashley.
0:05 And on our show, we explore the intersection between personal development, spirituality and science.
0:10 And I am so excited for today's guest with me, I have Jennifer Norman.
0:16 I met Jennifer because I was on her podcast and we just vibed so well, we had to keep the conversation going.
0:21 So I'm really excited for you to hear what she has to say.
0:24 So, Jennifer is a Korean American adoptee, a beauty entrepreneur, an award winning author, a mentor, a philanthropist, a podcast host and a single special needs mom of a boy living with severe chronic illness and disability.
0:40 Hi, I'm Kris.
0:42 When I was younger, I went through trauma that caused me to feel broken and lost.
0:46 But my life changed after I had a spiritual awakening.
0:50 Since then, I've dedicated my life to studying and learning from masters all around the world that have helped me to create a life of fulfillment and abundance beyond my wildest dreams.
0:59 Now I'm dedicated to sharing everything I've learned so that you don't have to suffer for decades.
1:04 Like I did, I've seen people's lives completely transform and I share it all right here.
1:12 So, wow, that is a lot.
1:13 Welcome Jennifer.
1:14 I can't wait to hear your story.
1:16 Hi, Kris.
1:17 It's so great to be here.
1:18 Thank you so much for having me on your show.
1:21 Thank you for coming on.
1:22 Like I said, I've been really looking forward to this conversation.
1:26 And you know, I just, I just read off a whole list of accolades and some, some pretty intense things as well.
1:32 So I know that you shared with me that you had a spiritual awakening.
1:35 So I'd love to hear about your journey.
1:37 What's your origin story?
1:39 Yeah, my origin story is, you know, it, it's, it's a fascinating one.
1:45 It's, it's different from the perspective that, you know, I'm one of those people who doesn't really know their own birth date.
1:53 I'm one of those people who didn't grow up with people who really looked like them because I was adopted when I was about two years old from Korea into a white family.
2:05 And my mom and dad had three of their own Children naturally and then decided that they wanted to save the world one child at a time.
2:13 So they adopted three.
2:14 So we were, we were six kids all growing up together.
2:19 And it was very interesting because all the while I really found that there was this desire within me that I couldn't really understand growing up, I couldn't really understand why I didn't really feel like I fit in so well.
2:35 I kept looking for cues and feeling like I wanted to do certain things.
2:39 But they weren't necessarily the things that,, my parents said were, were quite the right thing.
2:44 For example, like my, my mom and dad would always say like, oh, you know, you should go into,, the family business.
2:52 And I was like, oh, gosh, that just seems really boring to me.
2:55 My, my dad was in electronics and I just felt like I yearned for something creative.
3:00 I found myself drawn to art and to, you know, to fashion and such.
3:05 And there were nights where I would just stay up all night painting or drawing and they were like, are you insane?
3:12 They thought that I was like, just absolutely crazy.
3:14 I might have been, but it was just like, it was such a passion of mine.
3:18 But yet, you know, while I was also trying to, you know, release this creativity with dance and art and all of that, I found myself saying like, OK, I need to fit in, I need to do things that are, are appropriate.
3:31 So I like flung myself into, into school and I even went to business school and got an MB A afterwards and was really finding this big divide between, you know, what I was supposed to do and what I really felt yearning inside.
3:47 But then, you know, it's interesting because over time, I recognize that my inability to really understand myself with having an impact on my relationships with other people.
4:01 I got married at 24 what I call my starter marriage and that ended, you know, four years later, you know, and by 28 I felt like an old, washed up just like that, you know, damaged goods and that really weighed on me.
4:18 I was like, gosh, I already felt like a failure.
4:20 You know, even before I turned 30 I was like, I've just like, I had grown up Catholic and so I was like, I failed the church, I failed my family again.
4:29 I felt like I was just doing something wrong.
4:32 But then ultimately, I made myself AAA shift in, in my environment and I found that that helped to a certain degree I moved from New York where it was all about just turn and burn.
4:46 And, you know, in Manhattan, I moved out out west to Los Angeles and I was like, oh, I'm surrounded by a little bit more nature.
4:55 This actually feels good for me.
4:56 So I was noticing and I think that maybe some of your your listeners can agree.
5:02 It's like your environment has so much of an impact on, on how you feel and, and just like your, your whole biorhythm and, and all of those things, and I was able to kind of slow down and get myself into a different pace of life yet I was still having these, these yearnings for past culture kind of coming up into, into my, you know, into my consciousness and, and with, you know, I, I was still hustling, I was still working really hard and not spending a lot of downtime.
5:37 Even though I had put myself in a better environment, I ended up getting married again.
5:45 Even though I really didn't feel like that was right for me, I was like, ok, I really, you know, maybe I should get married again.
5:51 But a, a and, and I was pregnant and so I was like, it's, it's the right thing to do when you have a child, you should be married.
5:58 And so, you know, all of that seemed to stem from the life that I felt like I should be living rather than what really felt right for me.
6:09 And so fast forward a few years, my son that I had given birth to, which was an amazing miracle for somebody who hasn't grown up with anybody that looks like them to have your own child and to see your own self staring back at you and to be able to hold that little being, it was, was truly remarkable to me.
6:35 It was as if I had given birth to myself.
6:39 Wow, that's really fun.
6:40 Yeah.
6:41 Yeah.
6:42 And so there was just this very unique bond that I had with my son because I felt like, wow, this is family.
6:49 This is, this is part of me.
6:50 It was really, really special.
6:53 , when he, when he was two years old, he started to show signs of lethargy.
6:59 He started to show what we call spasticity where his muscles would start to like,, lock up and he wasn't able to move properly and we were like, oh, what's going on?
7:10 Took him to all the doctors.
7:11 Nobody could figure out what was going on.
7:14 It turned out that he actually was harboring a very rare genetic disorder that we didn't know about.
7:22 It didn't present itself until he was two years old and he ended up falling into a coma like like state for about three months and all the while.
7:34 Yeah.
7:35 And you can imagine any, any new parents out there, it's, it's so hard when you have a child and they can't tell you what's wrong.
7:43 You don't know what's happening.
7:45 None of the tests come back very conclusive.
7:47 You know, he doesn't have a virus.
7:49 This is before COVID doesn't have a bacterial infection.
7:53 Like all of the markers that they were looking for came back negative.
7:58 And ultimately, they had to take a bit of leg muscle to study his cells.
8:04 And we were able to determine from the look of his cells and from these MRI screenings that they did, they had just discovered that he was having this massive inflammation in his brain and it was running down his spinal cord and it was pretty much,, killing off the cells that were in his brain, leaving severe damage, severe neuromuscular damage.
8:31 And he was given a prognosis that was extremely bleak.
8:36 And so, you know, that at that moment, I think that I, I fell into trauma, what being told that, you know, we can't find a heartbeat.
8:45 Your son isn't gonna make it when this is really my own feeling of family.
8:50 I felt like this whole, like my world was just collapsing before my eyes and didn't really know what to do.
8:57 But ultimately, I decided that I was gonna hold on for hope.
9:02 And, and really, it's like any amount of light that you can cling on to, it's like reach for that.
9:08 Don't let yourself.
9:10 I, I was really finding myself, you know, very, very,, easily falling into this very, very dark space.
9:19 But I did a lot of, at the time I, I would pray, I would speak to priests and, and things like that the priests would pretty much say, well, what did the doctor say?
9:28 I think that you should let it go, you know.
9:30 And so it was, it, I was finding that they were just confirming what the medical providers were offering.
9:37 Surprising.
9:38 Wow.
9:38 Yeah.
9:39 Yeah.
9:40 Yes and no, because I feel like in some cases there so faced with the ultimate where people are on their death beds and saying last rites and finding people, you know, in situations where it's hard to say goodbye.
9:55 And so they're trying to ease you over into that step much more easily when, when things are looking so bleak.
10:03 But inevitably, and, and I, I do believe it was somewhat of a miracle that my son was able to pull through and only by sheer,, I, I think the ability for, you know, great doctors and the fact that we do live in Los Angeles where there is, you know, there, there is a lot of care and, and a lot of attention as well as the fact that we said, you know what, we are going to hold on for hope, that he started waking up and he started to get better and we were able to take him home about a month later.
10:39 Not without the fact that he is in very critical situation, he was intubated.
10:44 So he's,, you know, pretty much on a ventilator, needed to learn how to speak again, needed to learn how to walk and talk and do all of the things.
10:55 His, his condition did not have a cure and continues to not have a cure.
11:00 He's by the way, he's 17 going on 18 now.
11:04 So he's a survivor and my biggest spiritual teacher to be honest with you.
11:11 But, you know, he has taught me so many great, great things.
11:17 And he was really the reason why I came to a spiritual awakening.
11:22 A lot of people come to it when they're faced with traumatic experiences, they feel like there's nowhere else to turn and, and all of that.
11:29 And so that was really my, my point of feeling like, ok, you know, in order for me to be able to be the best mom and support that I can, then I need to be the light.
11:42 I need to bring joy and love and happiness and fun.
11:46 And really, I felt like when everything else fails, that is the best reason for living.
11:53 And that is our reason for living is to always lean into joy in order to find your way forward.
12:00 A lot of times we take things so seriously and yes, that was a very, very serious thing.
12:05 But when we are able to lift ourselves up and, and find that bliss, find those reasons to laugh and just crack up, you know, no matter how silly or whatever it is, it is medicine that is medicine for the soul.
12:19 And so, that was really just the point at which I felt the turning point of saying, you know what I really think that I've through this, this hardship, I found my purpose.
12:31 I found really what life is all about and I really wanna share this with other people who have gone through it, who are going through it, who might need a little bit of guidance and, and support.
12:44 After that, what was so interesting is that, you know, when they say, you know, when it rains, it pours, it certainly had for me.
12:53 I did have a situation where the man that I was married to, my son's father had been known to have infidelity pretty much for the entirety of our marriage.
13:04 And I was holding on because my son was in, still in such a severe situation that I was like, I just can't break up the family again thinking like I needed to, to keep things together in order to create this sense of stability and putting myself and my feelings aside.
13:23 my mom passed away pretty much right around the same time.
13:27 So it was very easy for me to fall into like, OK, why is all of this happening to me?
13:33 What is going on?
13:35 What, you know, why did, what did I do to deserve this?
13:38 I almost said that on a daily basis, I really felt myself playing the victim in a lot of it and probably a lot of people would say rightly.
13:49 So, you know, all of these things like I didn't, you know, I, I, if you could think about it, it's like, yeah, my, you know, my mom passing away wasn't anything that I could control my then husband cheating on me, you know, what did I have to do?
14:03 And for the fact that he was cheating on me the entire time, it's very easy to say, well, that wasn't me, it was him, my son being ill again.
14:12 It's, it's very easy for me to have played the victim and feel that I was justified in feeling victimized and that everything else was to blame.
14:22 The world was out to get me.
14:24 I know that other people in this situation really start to say like, you know, God is mad at me there.
14:30 You know, it's just like everything is, is working against me.
14:34 And ultimately, it started to consume my soul.
14:39 It really took me into this place of feeling really bitter and really angry and really resentful.
14:47 And when I thought about it, I, I ultimately said, you know what, this is going to be so debilitating, I'm not going to be able to survive.
14:56 So I had to make a choice.
14:59 I, I think that all of us are really faced with a very, very profound choice in our lives.
15:04 And it doesn't have to be a big situation such as, you know, health and death and relationships falling apart.
15:12 But every day we have a choice to make something better of the situation.
15:19 And I find, and I found that continuing to ruminate over all of the things that were wrong in my life or all the things that went bad was continuing to propagate all the things that are wrong and all the things that go bad.
15:36 Whereas if I just lifted myself up and said, you know what I'm gonna choose to live my life forward rather than backwards.
15:44 I want this to be a learning experience rather than a victimhood experience where I continue to hurt myself with these feelings.
15:54 Because every time you think about them, your body doesn't know the difference.
15:57 We all know that it's like as if you're, you're, you're, you're essentially reliving these things over and over and over again.
16:05 I had learned that the word resent actually comes from re sentient, which is to refeel, you're feeling these feelings over and over again.
16:16 And so making the choice to, to be better rather than to feel bitter is really very, very much a point of consciousness of being able to pause and not react.
16:30 But instead have this inspired action and this willingness to make something better of yourself and of the life that you want to live.
16:42 Don't we all want to feel liberated?
16:44 I would imagine, you know, there's, there's just this sense that, you know, we just don't want to feel that way when life, you know, gives us all of these wonderful challenges and they are wonderful.
16:55 We have to say thank you for these challenges because when we look at them and reframe them, they are truly, truly life changing and they're there for us to build resilience, to build strength, to build even more love and the opportunity for forgiveness and for kindness and for empathy and understanding in our hearts.
17:18 So that we can then help change the world and help heal the world with our light and with our love and with our magic, it's all about the law of attraction and I know that you are an expert in that area.
17:32 Yeah.
17:32 Wow, Jennifer.
17:33 Thank you so much for sharing that, for your vulnerability, for your honesty.
17:38 I was on the edge of my seat the entire time during that story and what an inspiration you are like, just talk, hearing you talk, you can just see the joy and passion and love and kindness emanating from you.
17:51 And there's not many people like, you know, I, I say that sincerely like I wouldn't just say that to anyone.
17:58 And you know, I, I think what's so inspiring about your story you kind of touched on is so many people would fall into victimhood because like you said, you, you're totally justified to, right?
18:10 Especially when you're going through that dark night of the soul and things just get piled on like when it rains, it pours.
18:16 I've been through those, those circumstances where it's like, what else can go wrong?
18:21 That life is just happening to me, right?
18:25 And I, I appreciate that you did go to that dark place at first, right?
18:29 Because sometimes we have to go to those dark places to really see the light and to find ourselves again, right?
18:35 And we wouldn't be honest with people if we said, oh, Yeah, I just knew from the get go like I'm gonna be that light, right?
18:43 I'm gonna find that thing because sometimes like we're human beings, right?
18:46 We have these emotions to feel.
18:48 So I appreciate that you, you did go to the darkness.
18:51 So, you know, I was writing down all these questions as you were telling your story.
18:57 And you answered a lot of them but you know what, what was that Was there?
19:01 Like one defining moment where you were like, ok, enough is enough.
19:05 Like I, I can't, I have to either, you know, stay in resentment and I love your definition of it, stay in resentment and get bitter or forgive and find that light and get better.
19:18 Like was there that one moment or was it this gradual thing?
19:23 You know, I think that to a certain degree, it was a bit gradual and it's interesting when you bring up dark night of the soul because for a period of time, I didn't believe in shadow work.
19:33 I didn't believe in dark night of the soul.
19:35 I thought, you know, ok, it's better to just turn your head and, you know, head towards the light.
19:40 But then I realized that when you do that, there is still this harboring emotion that is being shrouded and it's really important to do the work, to excavate that and to release it out of the body.
19:57 Or else it can cause problems, it can tend to resurface and come back up and up and up again.
20:03 And I think that that was what was happening is that, you know, I would, I would fall into this victimhood.
20:08 I'd fall into the woe is me.
20:10 I would recognize that with my conversations with other people.
20:14 I would notice that it was just like this whole it was almost as if we were like trauma bonding and it would just grow and grow and grow and somebody would all be like, yeah, and this is what this person did to me.
20:29 And yeah, that's what that person did to me.
20:30 And oh my gosh, isn't that terrible and, and it would just end up, we would all feel like, yeah, we, we were, we vented and we, you know, just got it out there.
20:39 But essentially was anything really better was anything really resolved.
20:43 It didn't feel good.
20:45 And I think that over time as I was noticing and reflecting, I just was able to, for whatever reason, have the opportunity to sit back and look at things and, and what was being created during this period of I would call grief and mourning and, and understanding that, yeah, it takes a bit, you know, feel angry, feel upset, feel all those feelings, don't feel that you, you know, need to suppress them because I, you know, that it just needs to come out.
21:16 But if you tend to loop back into that and get angry over again and wallow in it and, and you know, continue to place yourself in victimhood.
21:27 Then that is the complete opposite of victory.
21:31 It's, it's not empowering and all of a sudden your life continues to become not your own and negative things keep happening to you because you're attracting that.
21:43 And I sat there and I paused and I said, you know what, I don't want to feel like this anymore.
21:47 I don't want to live this way and it really did become a choice.
21:51 II, I saw what was happening.
21:53 I saw the conversations that were happening around me and I was like, you know what, I really want to lift myself out of this.
21:59 I want to be better.
22:00 I don't want to feel this bitterness anymore.
22:02 I've got to learn to forgive and to let it go and live my life, following my bliss, following joy and, and I feel that that is really the place where I'm going to feel the most fulfilled.
22:17 And yeah, all of this is here for a lesson.
22:20 All of this is here to teach me something.
22:23 And I can, if I let it be better for it, I can, if I let it be the person that I always hoped that I could be when faced with these dire situations.
22:36 And I could also help be an example, a way shower as of sorts for other people who might also be, you know, going through some really, really bad things.
22:49 Yeah.
22:50 And I, and I love that you turned it all into a lesson because that's exactly what these things are.
22:55 Right.
22:55 We, we decide those big life circumstances that we're going to go through before we come here because they are the lessons that we need to learn.
23:03 Right.
23:04 They set us up to learn the lessons that we're meant to learn.
23:06 So we can grow and we can level up and, you know, I love what you described about the trauma bonding because I think that happens a lot.
23:15 You know, psychology, I'm sure you've heard this psychologists estimate 70 to 90% of people's thoughts are negative and repetitive.
23:22 So they're thinking the same negative thoughts every day and they're having the same conversations with people and in the moment sometimes it might feel really cathartic to vent like you were saying, right?
23:33 Or to just almost try and like one up each other.
23:36 Like this is what I'm going through.
23:38 Well, this is what I'm going through.
23:39 Like hold my beer.
23:40 Yeah.
23:41 What was that?
23:42 Like, hold my beer.
23:43 Yeah.
23:44 Yeah.
23:44 Exactly.
23:45 Exactly.
23:46 Yeah.
23:46 But I love that you said too, like in the end that's not serving anyone.
23:51 And, you know, I think it happens even on a larger societal cultural level with things like cancel culture, right?
23:58 People start to bond over, you know, issues that they have, that they have common issues that they have issues with problems with and people start to dog pile on these issues and kind of get each other more and more ramped up and, you know, we see it so much and there's this, I don't know if you've heard of like what a thought form of energy is, but it's almost where people get so emotional and these, they're pouring the same emotion into something and then the emotion kind of takes on this life form of its own, like this cloud of anger or this cloud of resentment.
24:34 And it kind of sweeps everyone else up in its path and it makes it really hard to escape from that like hive mind almost.
24:40 So to be able to pull yourself out of that is really powerful.
24:44 True, true.
24:45 I also wanted to mention that we as human beings are just very prone to search for meaning like what is the meaning of life?
24:56 What is the, you know, what is the purpose of life?
24:59 And so anything that happens, we can take so many different ways and interpretation of what occurs can, can be taken so many different ways.
25:10 There is that age old parable of the family that's walking with the donkey.
25:15 I'm not sure if you've, you've heard of it or if your your listeners have, but it's like the man, the woman and their child is, you know, walking the donkey, the man's on the donkey and everybody says, oh my gosh, look at him, how dare he, you know, ride on the donkey while his poor wife and his child are walking next to me.
25:32 And so he gets off, the wife gets on.
25:33 Oh, look at her.
25:34 She's so entitled.
25:36 She thinks that she's better than all of the rest of them.
25:38 I can't believe that she's writing.
25:39 They put the child on the donkey and it's like, oh my gosh, you know that, that child is so lazy, they're not gonna teach that child any hard work.
25:47 And so they end up all picking up the donkey.
25:52 And then the other, the other fourth one is, oh my God, that poor donkey.
25:56 Yeah, they, they all ride on a donkey and then they, they say like animal abuse, you know, and so then, you know, none of them ride on it and it's like the waste of it.
26:04 So everybody is going to have an opinion no matter what anybody does.
26:09 And, and it really is our own interpretation of what is happening.
26:14 And the, the fascinating thing about cancel culture, I mean, it's really coming from a place of your own inner being.
26:21 But what happens is once you see other people starting to migrate towards the behavior, then groupthink starts to set in and yeah, the dog pilling starts to happen.
26:33 And a lot of times we have no idea what the real truth of the matter is.
26:37 And, and ultimately what we also know is that, you know, anything that happens in life is really just neutral.
26:45 It's really our reaction and our response to it that, you know, gives it meaning and provides its meaning.
26:52 And so I've, I've come to learn that the meaning of life is to give life meaning.
26:55 That's really what it is.
26:56 The purpose of life is to give life purpose.
26:58 That's, that's really what it's all about.
27:02 And you know, what is that purpose going to be?
27:04 We can ask ourselves and do that journaling work and do that inner work to really dive deep inside and say, you know, why am I here?
27:12 Why, what is the purpose of why, you know what I want to contribute?
27:17 How, what is the mark that I want to leave?
27:19 Is it going to be something where I'm going to be laying in, in blame and victimhood and in this place of and, you know, negative, low frequency, low energy, I don't think so.
27:29 I know your, your, your listeners don't want to be there instead, you know, we are here to help, to be inspirations and to help to inspire.
27:39 You know, the interesting thing is when I said, my son is the best teacher and, and he, he, I almost look at him as my little Buddha because he is actually mute.
27:47 He, he's non verbal and he is nonmobile.
27:51 And so he essentially sits very placidly in his wheelchair or in his bed.
27:56 And you know, just he's, he just, he is being he is just being himself.
28:03 And the, the interesting thing is that there was so much time that I spent trying to figure out, ok, is his heart ok?
28:12 Is this, are his legs?
28:13 OK?
28:14 Is like, what is he feeling?
28:15 What is he thinking?
28:16 And I was driving myself crazy trying to find all of these things until I ultimately heard a voice.
28:23 I think that it was an angel coming to me that said, you know what your job is not to fix him.
28:28 Your job is to love him.
28:30 Your job is to love him as he is.
28:32 And I was like, you know what?
28:33 That was so freeing goosebumps.
28:36 Yeah, it's the goosebump thing.
28:37 You know that the spirit is here.
28:39 That's when, when you know that and, and, and perhaps, you know, rather than blaming or canceling rather than then looking at other people for all the wrongdoings that they're doing.
28:49 We can say, you know what our job isn't to try to, you know, point out what's wrong.
28:53 Our, our job is to love.
28:55 Our job is to be here and love no matter what.
28:59 And wouldn't the world be a much kinder place if we could all have that kind of empathy?
29:04 If we could all feel that, you know what, I'm a human being, I'm gonna make mistakes that other persons, a human being, they're gonna make mistakes.
29:12 We've got, there's gotta be a way for us to be able to seek forgiveness and to seek kindness and to seek humanity and to seek the beauty in all things.
29:23 because that is going to help lift the vibration of this world that's gonna move us forward when we live our best lives, from our most creative, from our most joyous, from our most loving.
29:36 That's what we want to put forth into the world.
29:39 And when we continuously play the victim and boy, it's interesting because, you know, for a period of time there, I remember when, you know, during the COVID period and, and some other situations that have occurred afterwards, there was a movement called stop Asian hate.
29:58 And so I was actually, you know, pointed out as being like, oh, don't, you don't, you know, aren't you upset at all of the things, all these things that are happening to Asian people, I think stop Asian hate.
30:11 What you, first of all, you're using the word stop and you're, you're using the word hate.
30:16 And so aren't you just calling more of that to yourself if you actually come up with an organization called Stop Asian hate?
30:23 So just those kinds of things that we could be more mindful of and, and, you know, if we were to say like, support Asian love, you know, it might have been a little bit more positive and more fruitful.
30:36 you know, things like that.
30:37 II, I often will look at, you know, let's, let's think about how we're framing things and are we unconsciously calling what we don't want to us?
30:47 You know, we might have the best intentions but really fine tuning and, and, and getting to that place of really understanding how we can all harmoniously, really appreciate diversity, appreciate other people's differences without creating unnecessary isolations and silos as we're doing it in support of ourselves.
31:12 Yeah, absolutely.
31:13 And just in terms of bringing more of that to you, this is science fact, right?
31:17 Quantum physics says that, you know, we whatever we send out into the quantum field, we're going to get more of back in our lives and humanity is going to get more of.
31:26 So when we make another person feel singled out or humiliated or shamed or sad humanity and the planet are gonna get more people, circumstances situations that make people feel that way, right?
31:39 We're, we're literally harming ourselves and you know, it's not just woo it's science backed.
31:44 Mhm So, you know, that's interesting the stop Asian hate thing, you know, like it seems like it's become so trendy in today's society to be a victim and especially with social media, social media kind of honors victims.
31:59 Like how, what do you have to say about that?
32:01 Especially in that awkward situation where people were like, well, you're Asian like, shouldn't you be offended right now?
32:07 Shouldn't you be, you know, taking to social media?
32:10 Like how do you, how do you navigate this?
32:13 Yeah, it's very interesting that a lot of people say that, you know, when, when you look at the, the stages of, of frequency and emotion and how these are tied to energies and vibrations and you think about the lowest form of energy is when you feel depressed and you just feel inward and, and it's, it's really like the lowest rung when you're angry, that's actually a step above being depressed.
32:38 And so when you're angry, a lot of people say, well, that's what you need, you need that anger in order to spark action.
32:46 And so that is where different kinds of organizations band together, you know, fighting, fighting, fighting, fighting and, and so they, and, and there is justification.
33:00 They, and again, you know, they feel justified from, you know, a social justice perspective to take action based upon a wrongdoing and anger.
33:10 And so yes, that is one way forward and it's a very popular one because it is easy.
33:17 It's very easy to get angry and then react and then just, you know, get back at somebody for something.
33:25 It is more difficult to rise above that and get to the place where you're saying, let's have a conversation about what just happened.
33:33 I, you know, maybe you're, you're a this way because something happened to you in your past and, and you're really upset about it and you're really hurt and you're taking it out on me and I know you don't really mean to I understand where you're coming from.
33:48 And if you understand where I'm coming from, that I had nothing to do with this.
33:51 And just because of the way that I look, I act as a representation for everything that might be wrong in your life when we get to that place and we can meet eye to eye and, and develop a better communication, better understanding, better diplomacy.
34:06 That is a higher level vibration that is definitely more involved.
34:11 Shall we say when you're talking about Maslow's hierarchy or you're talking about the evolution of, of humanity?
34:17 And so yeah, it's easier to fall into that victimhood.
34:21 It's easier to fall into that hate and animosity and rancor and yeah, I won zero sum game.
34:28 In some cases, some would call that more masculine energy rather than the feminine energy, which is to try to resolve differences in, you know, a more kind, gentler way.
34:40 Sometimes people look at it as a form of weakness if you try to talk things out or if you turn the other cheek and forgive, but ultimately, will the world be less fighting each other?
34:54 Would, would we have less wars, would we have, you know, less differences of opinion?
34:59 Would we have more acceptance if we were able to lift ourselves out of that and get ourselves into a higher vibration?
35:07 That is the work, that is the work that a lot of people find it very hard to do.
35:12 But once we get there, wouldn't that be a better place to be?
35:16 And so, yeah, that is what I advocate for.
35:19 I am definitely more of a, a pacifist.
35:22 , I am definitely, you know, against war.
35:25 I do understand that if there are wrong just doings that justice is there for a reason.
35:32 You have a conversation about what just happened, you say, hey, you get to the table, you look the person in the eye or, or you have that, that conversation and then you, you work out what might need to happen in terms of amends or reparations, that's totally fine.
35:49 But an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind as the old adage says, absolutely.
35:56 And I wish I could underline what you said about.
35:59 Ok?
35:59 Because of the way I look, I'm a representation for all that's wrong in your life, right?
36:04 So often we are just projecting our own pain and our own fear onto people.
36:09 And you talked about anger, anger is such a common emotion that people fall into because it covers up deep heartache, it covers up grief, it covers up your own pain and fear.
36:19 Like you said, it's easy.
36:20 It's almost a cop out in a way.
36:22 It's a surrogate for grief.
36:24 Yeah, there's a lot of pain underneath that.
36:27 And a lot of times people don't really understand what their unconscious biases are.
36:32 It comes out in ways that even they can't necessarily comprehend unless they were to go through therapy and do the work to really unpack a whole lot of stuff that might have happened over the course of their lives.
36:44 Yeah.
36:45 And I think that, you know, when we, when we understand that, you know, other people are just reflectors, everybody that you come into contact with is really, you know, if something triggers you, it's something that's going on inside you, it has nothing to do with that other person and you may blame that other person.
37:05 It took me a long time to realize that even though, you know, when I was in a relationship, if there was infidelity, how did I have, you know, a, a 5050 share in what was happening?
37:19 It was, you know, it was really, really difficult, but ultimately, I recognized that.
37:24 Yeah, I, I was party to it.
37:26 I, I didn't, you know, do that work to help, to resolve what those underlying issues were.
37:34 And there was some energy within me that had Condoned it that had enabled it that had allowed it to continue on.
37:43 And so a lot of people find it hard to accept when, you know, there's, there's something going on and it's a lot easier and, you know, a lot of people find solace and people saying like, oh my gosh, how terrible I feel so bad for you.
37:58 They look at that as support when you play the victim they are, you know, it's just like you know, I, you know, carry me forward because I'm in this position of, you know, being less than, or being called less than when.
38:12 Ultimately we are the ones that are placing ourselves in that less than position.
38:18 Exactly.
38:18 It's, it's not empowering.
38:20 Right.
38:20 You get to play the martyr.
38:22 You get pity.
38:23 Like there's a lot of reasons to play the victim psychologically.
38:27 But you're not, you're not taking charge of your own healing, you're not taking, you're not growing, you're, you're stuck in your own world playing small.
38:37 You know what you were saying was making me think about how I was talking to another guest recently who's a therapist and we were talking about how people don't want to believe that they've done anything wrong, right?
38:51 They, they in their own mind, they're innocent so they will come up with reasons why it's everyone else's fault why, you know, everyone else is the problem.
39:00 They acted horribly like they're the, they're the only rational ones and it's just a really interesting psychological thing.
39:07 And again, it goes back to what you were saying, like, we all need to just like look inside and do the work.
39:12 And I was also thinking about, you know, the the people who have really made change in this world, like really, really changed the world.
39:19 People like Nelson Mandela and Mother Teresa and MLK Junior, like those people went about it in peaceful ways, right?
39:27 They weren't the ones out there fighting because if you're fighting the outside world, you're fighting yourself.
39:32 Like you said, it's all a reflection of you.
39:35 Yeah.
39:35 Yeah.
39:37 Yeah.
39:37 Go ahead.
39:38 No, I was going to say that.
39:40 Yeah.
39:40 There, there is a lack of self awareness.
39:42 In many, in many cases, there is a lack of understanding our own power from that perspective, especially when we play the the victim.
39:52 We're disempowering ourselves, we're giving it away to somebody else.
39:55 We're letting others control how we feel about ourselves and about the world around us.
40:02 And so it's time for us to all take radical responsibility for our own lives.
40:09 It's not your boss' fault.
40:11 It's not your parents' fault.
40:12 It's not the government's fault.
40:14 It's not, you know, the because, you know, ultimately throughout the course of our lives, we are met with these situations and it's really their perspective, the frame of mind, the, the ability to be like, oh, I see what's going on here and almost call it for what it is like a game.
40:35 Yeah.
40:36 Yeah.
40:37 And I remember when we were speaking before, just before this episode, we were talking about how people tend to wear their identity or their heritage or their victimhood almost as this badge, right?
40:48 Which is all ego like, can you talk about that a little bit?
40:51 Yes.
40:52 Yes.
40:52 And boy, I know that this conversation always causes me to step in it.
40:58 I know that because everybody feels very, very strongly about this, this topic, I think about how when we, when I identify, for example, as an Asian American or somebody else is to identify as Latina or somebody else identifies as black or a native American, you know, indigenous European.
41:24 you know, any, any kind of representation.
41:28 LGBT Q like a lot of these labels, a lot of people really do identify with the labels that they wear and it makes sense because we are in this 3d world where the very first thing that quote unquote Adam was told to do was name all the animals, name all the plants.
41:50 And so it's a way for us to, to really understand what the differences between that object and that object, that person and that person.
42:00 And so these labels and these adjectives and these Proclivities and these stereotypes and, you know, biases, a lot of these things stem from, you know, how we, we identify ourselves.
42:15 And then what essentially happens is when you identify in a certain way, then you are inherently bonding potentially with those people like me, me Slack.
42:27 And you're like, hey, you're Asian, I'm Asian too.
42:29 And you know, we have culture in common.
42:31 If you're LGBT, it's like, oh my goodness, we have, you know, similarities in where we like to go and who we, we like to, you know, have an affinity for things like that.
42:41 And so there are wonderful shared experiences within those identities which can be uplifting and supportive where it tends to go a bit sideways is when we get into other groups which are more diverse, such as the United States of America.
43:01 And then say, oh, you're not like me.
43:03 Hm.
43:04 I don't think that, you know, you belong here.
43:07 I don't think that I belong here.
43:08 Oh, I don't feel like I belong here.
43:12 And that is interesting in terms of I a dynamic because if we think that it's all mental, it's, you know, I grew up in a family, which was, which, you know, didn't look like me.
43:24 And I really, that was my learned experience.
43:26 It's like I, I took that to heart.
43:27 It was like, wow, I'm being taught and, and you know, my ne my nurturing is teaching me to behave a certain way.
43:35 But there is this inherent nature within me which feels differently.
43:40 How, you know, what do I do with that?
43:42 I felt this yearning and this desire to identify with it.
43:47 And so it's extremely, extremely powerful in order to be able to just make sense and, and get give meaning to oneself and to others through the spiritual practice and the spiritual work that I have been doing it.
44:03 It is just so interesting to be able to venture out of the 3d and get into the five and then to these other dimensions where you realize we are all just energy.
44:16 We are these bodies of vibration and we're barely matter.
44:22 We are matter in that, you know what we can see with our visible eyes, tells us something.
44:27 But isn't it all a ruse?
44:28 I know that you speak expertly on this much more so than I do.
44:32 And there really isn't anything changing and, and, and different other than the vibrations that we are that we're gravitating towards and the more that we look at our separations and our differences and start fighting over those differences, whether they will be beliefs or whether they will be how we look or how we talk or what we wear or what kind of foods we like, no matter what it is, if we look at our separations as being more prominent than our, you know, the things that draw us together and those things that make us similar, the things that bind us together, that is where conflict is inevitable, that is where, you know, we are going to spend our time looking at these thin lines and focusing on those thin lines rather than the whole embodiment of energy, which is, you know, what this creative world is all about.
45:36 And so I do love to recognize the importance to many people of identity, of coming up with labels and, and to participate in, in structured ways and, and find support and find unique shared experiences with your identity.
45:56 I completely and wholeheartedly embrace that.
45:59 What I would love to advocate is for us to recognize the thinness of the walls that really do, partition all of us and look at us as being in like, let like, let's reach over those, those walls, let's reach over those lines and really understand that we are such a beautiful fabric of humanity and of energy and of source.
46:25 And, and really that is what makes life so enriching and so beautiful and so exciting is to see the differences that we all bring to the table.
46:36 And hey, can't we build on that?
46:38 It's like, hey, if you've got this experience and I've got this experience when we come together, can't we synergize and make something even cooler?
46:44 Then you know that those are the, the very simple ways of trying to kind of express how I feel about identity and my hope for us to be able to see it for what it is and then rise above it.
46:59 Thank you for explaining all that in such a beautiful and articulate way that I think a lot of people are going to resonate with.
47:07 And you know, it reminds me of like I saw this thing on Instagram where it was like a picture of a baby and it said something, the caption was something like, you know, we're born into this world and immediately we're given an identity, a race, a religion.
47:21 And there's like all these hands like trying to hand at things, but we as souls are all the same, right?
47:28 We really are and we choose all these circumstances before we're incarnated, we choose who we're going to be born to, how we're going to be born where we're gonna live, what we look like.
47:39 Because again, we all have lessons that we're meant to learn in this lifetime.
47:44 And these things just kind of ready the soil, plant the seed, then it's us up to us like how we grow and if we learn those lessons, but we all are all one and the same.
47:55 I was just watching a video too about string theory.
47:59 I don't know if you're familiar with it, but it was really fascinating.
48:02 The the scientists had an orange and he was like, OK, so this is just an orange and it reminded you reminded me of this because you were talking about like matter like we're barely matter, right?
48:11 So you can break the orange down into molecules, right?
48:16 And then if you break the molecules down, you might see atoms and by the way, atoms are just spinning vortexes of invisible energy.
48:24 Like if you've ever seen the wind pick up some leaves and spin them around like a little mini tornado, imagine that but take away the leaves and that's what an atom is and that's what we're made of, that's what matter is made of.
48:35 But then if you go deeper, there's an electron in there and then if you go even deeper, like eventually you find these tiny little strings and they're just vibrating and that's all, all of this is, that's what string theory is that we are all just little things vibrating, we're just energy vibrating all of us.
48:54 And when you think about it like that, it makes all of these, you know, perceived problems that we're all, you know, focused on or these differences that we're focused on or these conflicts that we're having just so meaningless, right?
49:10 Because there's so much more going on there is, there's, it's like we're in this simulation almost, right?
49:17 This video game world and, you know, so many people are stuck in these conversations about identity or like a race and gender or whatever it is.
49:27 And there's a war going on in the middle.
49:29 It's crazy that there's a war going on in the Middle East right now, right?
49:33 But, but it just, it blows my mind that there is so much more to life and these things are what we're all focused on.
49:42 You know, it's, it, I just can't comprehend it.
49:46 Yeah.
49:46 Yeah.
49:47 And I think that, you know, and, and what we're talking about is very hard for a lot of people to comprehend who might not share the belief that we had soul contracts before we came into this planet and, and all of those things.
50:00 And so I, I respect everybody's beliefs.
50:03 I, I respect the fact that, you know, for those people who are hurting with family members or who, who are directly affected by wars and atrocities.
50:12 I mean, it, it's, it's hard when you're in the moment when you're in the physical space and you're feeling the griefs and, and all of this, these are very real circumstances,, to so many and it, and,, a lot of people who, you know, we have amnesia, we come and we forget that we've, what our beliefs are is that we forget that we've made these agreements, we've decided, you know, who our parents are and you know, who our kids are and we've agreed to all of this.
50:41 However, you know, I in honoring, you know, those who, who do really find solace and identity and who are being placed under the thumb.
50:53 Yeah, I, I do love to be able to provide support to people because when you're in the 3d world, you are in the thick of it.
51:02 I love being an advocate for those who feel marginalized because I feel like that's part of my work.
51:08 I feel like, you know, all of my life experience, everything that I came to earth for being adopted.
51:13 And you know, all of these things can be considered labels, but these are the experiences that led me back to myself and my understand standing of why I'm here.
51:22 And that is to just say, you know, what, for those of you who, who feel, gosh, you, you don't, you don't feel like you belong, you feel like you're, you're being victimized, you feel like you're, you're being harmed or in harm's way because of anything that you might represent to some others.
51:39 I got you.
51:40 I understand.
51:41 I get it and, and I know that it doesn't feel good.
51:44 And so let us think and consider that, you know, if, if we act with love rather than retaliation because it'll just escalate in more retaliation and war and all of these things.
51:57 And yes, look, look at what happens constantly when we don't see eye to eye to eye or when we believe when we have beliefs, that conflict with other people's beliefs, you know, Hamas wants to wipe all the Jews off the face of the earth.
52:11 I mean, that, that is not love, you know, and that, that, you know, that belief is deeply entrenched in the culture and in, in the religion and then the zealousness.
52:21 And so my, my sense is, you know, my humanity is to understand it's to, you know, be a support for you to know that you are loved and that I think about you and that I I'm here for you to be an empathetic arm and for us all to maybe find a way to get into the practice of lifting ourselves out of feeling the victim and instead feeling that love and joy and kindness for all people, no matter if they are so, so different from you.
52:57 For all people is really the best way forward.
53:01 It's hard, hard work but you know, think about the the cost otherwise.
53:06 Yeah, I think that's beautiful.
53:08 And you know, you keep talking about empathy and to me, empathy is the understanding that other people's beliefs and stories and perceptions are just as valid as yours, right?
53:22 And I think it ties back to what we, what I was saying earlier where people tend to think like I'm right and everyone else is wrong, like, and what you were saying, like everyone has a different perception with the donkey story.
53:33 You know, there could be something could happen and there could be 50 eyewitnesses and they could all explain it from a different point of view because they all have a different lens, a different story that they come from.
53:44 Yeah, it's so true.
53:45 It's absolutely true.
53:47 I mean, your story is valid.
53:49 My story is valid, my beliefs are valid.
53:51 Your, your beliefs are valid and there, there are, there, I mean, look at, with the politics in our country, it's, you know, it's almost as if we would rather destroy the other people or the other beliefs and tear it down and absolve it rather and finding common ground anymore.
54:11 It seems like we get so entrenched in our beliefs even if they aren't necessarily rooted in anything very much strongly other than our own persuasions.
54:24 Yeah.
54:25 And you know, I, speaking of politics, I mean, I think I said this on your show too.
54:29 I I really believe that politicians and you know, the media and even like racial grievance groups profit from keeping us divided, you know, and especially when it comes to the government and politicians, I think they keep us distracted by keeping us divided, right?
54:46 Because there's a lot going on behind the scenes that we're not privy to because we're so focused on talking about these identity issues or talking about, you know, this horrible war that's going on.
55:00 So there's then there's money moving around behind the scenes.
55:03 You know, there's there's different things going on.
55:05 So I think a lot of it is just to keep us distracted too because they benefit from it like, yeah, we are powerful, you know, there's all those I don't know if you've seen the square root of 1% but it's about group meditation, right?
55:21 And they, in the nineties, they did this experiment where they took a couple 100 meditators to Washington DC, which was the crime capital of the country at the time.
55:32 And they measured the rate of violent crimes before and after and rape like rapes, homicides, like violent crimes.
55:40 They all dipped by a massive massive percentage when people sat and meditated on peace and even emergency room visits went down.
55:49 car accidents went down and then it went back up once the meditators left, but we are powerful and if we could all unite rather than be divided and be separate.
56:00 Like there's no telling what we could achieve.
56:03 You know, we could achieve heaven on earth.
56:05 We can build an incredible society where everyone is taken care of.
56:10 And peace and love are, you know, the reigning factors.
56:14 But you know, we are, we are kept very divided.
56:17 I think it's interesting because I know Kelly Gorres, Joe Dispenza, you know, with the mass meditation movements and, you know, bringing together as many people across the world as possible at one time in order to just meditate on peace and harmony and love.
56:32 I think those, those aspects, I think Michael Beckwourth is also, you know, one that advocates for this is like, it's a, it's a beautiful thing, it's a beautiful thing to be able to come together for peace and prosperity to see what kind of impact that that can have.
56:50 And the, the hope is that we can discover a way to actually, you know, stretch out into the quantum and bring those kinds of things back so that they can have a lot more lasting effect on, on in the world at large.
57:05 And I think that, you know, there, there is an interesting discussion about politics, politicians, the money movement, all of those things.
57:15 I am not an expert in any way on, on those things.
57:19 But I, you know, and, and II, I know that there are a whole lot of theories out there about what is happening.
57:26 And,, I think that as long as we, you know, rather than kind of going down a lot of rabbit holes, I, as a lot of people do and bless, bless their hearts.
57:36 They are, they're fascinating.
57:37 , I think that the best thing for us to do is again, take radical responsibility for our lives and our own power to your point to, to recognize that.
57:46 Yeah.
57:47 rather than feeling the victim, rather than feeling like the government is out to get us or that, you know, capitalism is really doing everybody wrong, turning us all into lemmings, don't we kind of see that happening?
58:01 You know,, you know, rather than that, it's like, you know what, I'm gonna do things differently, I'm gonna do things differently for myself and for my family.
58:10 I'm going to really, you know, be one to steward in, you know, real good things for my ho my, myself, my home, my community, my world, it really all starts with ourselves rather than, you know, going out.
58:25 It's interesting because, I listen to a whole lot of Abraham Hicks as I had mentioned on, on my show and, you know, she's like, you know, how many of you want to change the world and everybody raises their hand and she's like, OK, that's the, that's the problem if you actually want to go.
58:40 Like, if you think that you don't need to change and you'd rather go out and do everything that you can to change somebody else or change the world then.
58:49 Isn't that the backwards way of working on things?
58:51 Let's change ourselves.
58:53 Let's work on ourselves and then the world will change.
58:56 Exactly.
58:57 I couldn't agree more.
58:58 And it, it, again, it just ties back into what we've been saying this whole time.
59:02 Like if you do the inner work and you heal and you get to be this beacon of light for others, right?
59:10 You rise and people are going to see that and they're going to rise up to meet you and you can have this beautiful ripple effect on your friends, your family, your community, and so many people are out there trying to fight for change, right?
59:23 That goes back to like cancel culture.
59:24 We we were talking about but the way that you change a sick society isn't by the outside world, it's by healing yourself, you heal your inner world, it heals your outer world.
59:34 So I think that just kind of tied everything back and I know we're, what's that?
59:40 No, no, go ahead.
59:41 I was just going to say I know we're like great at time.
59:43 So I was gonna just thank you so much for this amazing conversation.
59:47 I think having these conversations are so important and especially when we can do it in a compassionate and kind and open hearted way and I I just appreciate your time.
59:59 So thank you so much for coming on.
1:00:01 Tell, tell our listeners what you're up to how they can find you if they want to work with you.
1:00:09 Yeah, I my, my work is really about cultivating self love, self esteem, radical manifestation from there.
1:00:19 It's really about, you know, that, that inner beauty, that inner light.
1:00:24 I'm the founder of the Human Beauty Movement.
1:00:25 So feel free to take a look at what I offer on the Human Beauty movement.com and at the Human Beauty Movement is pretty much all of my socials.
1:00:35 And I also am a children's book author where I write books about disability for kids.
1:00:42 so that we can help to demystify disability and help kids be kind to each other rather than being startled or, or, you know, put off by other people's differences, you know, teaching people when they're young, really helps pave the way for them to be very kind, compassionate, empathetic adults.
1:01:00 So take a look at Super Captain Brave Man as well.
1:01:04 Thank you so much and I'm gonna have all the links in the show notes for anyone who's driving and didn't get a chance to jot all those down.
1:01:12 So, yeah, thank you so much, everyone.
1:01:13 Thank you again, Jennifer for coming on.
1:01:16 follow like, subscribe, share.
1:01:19 Let's keep spreading the good word, help heal the world.
1:01:23 You can follow me.
1:01:24 I'm change your mind with Kris all over, my book.
1:01:27 Is called change your mind to change your reality.
1:01:29 And thank you so much.
1:01:30 Everyone have a beautiful rest of your day.
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