0:00Hi everyone.
0:01Welcome back to the Change Your Mind podcast where we explore personal development, spirituality and science.
0:06I'm your host, Kris Ashley.
0:08I'm really excited for my guest today.
0:09We are going to talk all about health habits and how to make them really fun.
0:14, but first, a couple of quick announcements.
0:17If you head over to the links in the show notes, you're going to find all sorts of information.
0:21You will find ways to sponsor the podcast, you'll find a link to my book, change your mind to change your reality.
0:27you'll find links to courses and free downloads and free master classes and all sorts of goodies.
0:35So head over to the link tree, head over to the links in the show notes, and of course, you'll also find notes for all of my fabulous guests that I have.
0:43All right, so speaking of guests, let's introduce our guest today.
0:46So, hi, I'm Kris.
0:48When I was younger, I went through trauma that caused me to feel broken and lost.
0:53But my life changed after I had a spiritual awakening.
0:57Since then, I've dedicated my life to studying and learning from masters all around the world that have helped me to create a life of fulfillment and abundance beyond my wildest dreams.
1:06Now I'm dedicated to sharing everything I've learned so that you don't have to suffer for decades like I did.
1:12I've seen people's lives completely transformed, and I share it all right here.
1:18With me I have Sandia Goal, and Sandia is a pharmacist and healthy eating nutrition coach dedicated to making healthy eating so fun, it becomes a superpower.
1:31She has 12 years' experience working in the field of nutrition, supporting people in areas such as sustainable weight loss and improving blood sugars, as well as women's health.
1:40So welcome, Sandy.
1:41I'm so glad you're here.
1:43Thank you so much, Kris.
1:44I'm so excited to be here.
1:46Yeah, I'm excited for you to be here too.
1:49And we're going to talk.
1:50I want to know how you marry these two worlds of pharmaceuticals and holistic nutrition, eventually.
1:56But first, I want to ask you the question that I ask every single guest.
2:00The first question is, what is your origin story?
2:04So what is it that led you to want to become this coach that makes everything so fun and gamifies it?
2:12OK, so actually when you said origin story in my head pops like this adventure and all this really cool music.
2:17So that's why I love it, right?
2:19It reminds me of like Marvel or something.
2:21, so when I started out, in 2019, I actually got diagnosed with pre-diabetes.
2:28And at that time, I was a pharmacist already.
2:31And when I got diagnosed with pre-diabetes, I got a little ashamed because as a healthcare professional, I felt like I really should be practicing what I preach.
2:39And so I decided to make a complete change of my eating habits, to see if I could reverse the pre-diabetes without medication.
2:45And I actually managed to do it and make it like really sustainable.
2:49And, that actually led me very much into the health coaching because this was the first time I'd made such a big healthy eating change, made it sustainable, and like a big part of that was working on the mindset.
3:01So for the, like 12 years I've been a pharmacist, I have worked with so many people, for on things like weight loss, reversing diabetes, and just general like health habits.
3:14But I, in that 15 minutes to 30 minute conversation, we didn't spend a lot of time on mindset and how the mind and how your beliefs really affect your eating habits, and so what I'd see day after day is people would, Come into this journey and then at some point they would reverse and go back to what they were doing before.
3:36And so that's where I actually, became a health coach because I really wanted to marry the two.
3:41I really wanted to look at what was underlying all those eating habits and bring a more holistic view to how I dealt with people and I guess help people in their journey.
3:51Like my main goal as a pharmacist was really just to see that change, and it, it just gives me such a great feeling of pleasure to See someone make that change sustainably.
4:02So yeah, that's my origin story and how I ended up marrying the two as well actually.
4:07Well, it was full of adventure, so I think you did a good job.
4:11OK, so, you know, I'm sure people's first question is what eating habits did you change that allowed you to reverse that pre-diabetes?
4:21So the biggest one is I stopped thinking about food as a restriction, when I was looking at changing my eating habits, and I think this is something that is gaining a lot more traction nowadays, which is amazing, but, Just removing that idea that food is good or bad, and that I had to restrict in order to make this change made all the difference.
4:46In fact, I actually, for the first week that I made this change, remember eating ice cream every single day and actually feeling like you have to eat the ice cream.
4:56This is, this is not a choice, and that just almost changed the entire journey because taking away that idea of restriction.
5:04, and in like within my eating habits, just kind of made it so much more, I guess, wide open, you know?
5:12Like, first of all, you weren't really thinking about, oh my gosh, I can't eat this, I can't do that.
5:17You felt like you're coming from a place of abundance.
5:20And that was for me, such a big thing because I love.
5:22Food and I love eating.
5:24So that was one of the big, big, I guess, superpowers that I developed along the way.
5:30Another one that I found really, really useful was just taking it really slow.
5:34And sometimes what happens with people on, like eating journeys and changing habits, even any health habit really, is because health is such a big part of life.
5:43Like if you have health, you're really winning quite, quite well at at life.
5:48People think that it's all or nothing.
5:50And so what ends up happening is, I know with me particularly, I start feeling really overwhelmed and I start feeling like I have to do all these things.
5:58And then what ends up happening is I get overwhelmed and I do nothing.
6:01So this time, I ended up just taking it super slow.
6:05My goal, like my actual rule for my healthy habits and getting that, like all those routines into place was just to make something super small, so small that when I was going to do it, It just felt laughable that I couldn't.
6:19Like it felt ridiculous that I could not do some of those goals.
6:23And I'll give you an example, like.
6:27Adding like one extra vegetable to one meal a day was one of my first actions that I took and that is not a hard thing to do when you think about it, like, One extra vegetable could be, you know, an extra piece of lettuce in your sandwich, an extra piece of carrot in, you know, whatever meal you're making.
6:46So it's not a hard change to make, and the idea that you can't reach that, unless you live in a place where you don't have access to those foods is actually quite hard to do, like it's hard to not do that.
6:57So yeah, that's one of the other things that really I guess changed, changed the journey.
7:04I love that concept of making it so easy and small that it's like, it would be ridiculous if you couldn't do it.
7:11That's really, really great.
7:12And I I think I'm gonna steal that from you.
7:15And I have to laugh because I asked you what eating habit you changed to reverse your pre-diabetes and your answer was I ate ice cream every day.
7:24So.
7:25I was, I was expecting you to say, I cut out sugar, I cut out gluten or carbs or whatever, because, you know, as someone who has, who has studied a lot of this as well myself, like that's what I've been taught.
7:39So, so is there like a specific diet that you went with or that you coach people on?
7:47Like, what's the actual food?
7:49So when you mentioned cutting out sugar, that was actually what I focused on.
7:54And when I did say ice cream, that was only in the first week to get over that, like that mind, I guess obstacle of I'm gonna have to restrict.
8:03But realistically for pre pre-diabetes in my specific situation, cutting out sugar was the best option because I had a bit of a sugar addiction.
8:13And removing the sugar just meant that I could regulate what I ate so much more.
8:19I don't, when I coach people, I don't usually have like a specific diet because everyone is different.
8:24Everyone's bodies react differently to different foods, different types of foods, you know, so I don't necessarily like Promote a particular style of eating.
8:35However, there are some general rules that I always kind of try and put into place if it works for someone's lifestyle, and one of them is cutting out sugar, especially in the initial phases.
8:45So, especially when they have medical conditions like diabetes because Sugar is addictive.
8:53It's actually almost 10 times more addictive than narcotics.
8:57Like they've done studies to show that in the brain, that produces the same effect as drugs.
9:03So, yeah, like it's, it's.
9:09And so it's definitely one of those things, that when you cut it out, it becomes very beneficial.
9:14But I really want to clarify here, when I say quitting sugar, I don't actually mean natural sugar.
9:18So fruits, dates, anything where you can eat the natural source of the food and you get all those other benefits like increased fiber, increased hydration, all the vitamins and minerals that you need.
9:30Those things are not cutting out sugar.
9:32In fact, that's what I suggest as the substitute for processed sugar.
9:38And I think that's where a lot of people, it again takes away that restriction because we're not taking away everything sweet in life, it's more you're adding in more of the good things, the good sugars, and then taking away all the processed sugar where you can't really recreate that sugar in in your home, you know what I mean?
9:57Like, it's usually made in a factory, and those kind of sugars is what I cut out completely.
10:03And you know what, when you make the habit change.
10:08On a mindset level, sometimes making that action change is really not that hard.
10:14Yeah, yeah, I love that.
10:16Like, so I love that you said dates, by the way, because I have such a date addiction, like those Majeel dates from Whole Foods are so good.
10:23I'll sit there and eat like 10 of them.
10:24My husband's like, those have so much sugar.
10:27so I appreciate the permission.
10:28I'm gonna, I'm going to say that you gave me permission from now and when he gives me a hard time.
10:32And I love that you don't cut out fruit because a lot of people do and I know it's high in sugar, but I also like, if nature made it, it can't be that bad, right?
10:42Like we're meant to eat foods from nature.
10:44So I appreciate, I'm sure everything in moderation still, but I appreciate that outlook.
10:49OK, so you've talked about mindset a few times now, like what?
10:53How does your mindset affect your eating habits, I guess, is where we'll start.
10:59That's a very broad question.
11:01Yes, it it it affects it on so many levels.
11:05so the way you think about food, first of all, is gonna affect what the food does in your body.
11:10Did you know, I actually went to a workshop on this recently, and it was really cool.
11:14So your microbiome, which is like all the good bacteria that's sitting in your gut, has a huge effect on how you digest and, extract nutrients from food.
11:23Sure.
11:24And just taking deep belly breaths can actually change your gut microbiome within 4 to 6 weeks.
11:31So it can change the like type of food that you prefer and how you digest food within 4 to 6 weeks.
11:38I find that so fascinating because I know that is so fascinating.
11:43That's right.
11:44What's the science behind that, do you know?
11:47So the science is basically your microbiome adjusts itself based on what you're eating.
11:52So when you take deep belly breaths, first of all, you're promoting mindful eating.
11:57And that actually allows you to really taste the food and really see what the effect of that food is on your body.
12:03So that generally tends to lead to people wanting more of the things that are more nutritious.
12:09So that, and then within 4 to 6 weeks, what up happening is your microbiome slowly, slowly adjusts to actually prefer those foods over the like processed foods that you might have been eating before.
12:21And like, I just find it really fascinating that 4 to 6 weeks is not that long of a time.
12:27And it can feel like forever when you're doing it.
12:31But at the end of that, you, you're like basically a whole new, you've got a whole new like bacterial colon colony in your stomach, which is amazing.
12:38, I'm a bit of a nerd in this sense.
12:41I get really excited about this.
12:43I'm such a nerd too, and that's so fascinating.
12:46And you know, you and I were just chatting right before this, that we both have like young babies and like, so my kid was a baby and so I'm thinking about his gut microbiome a lot.
12:57Like I just bought one of those like tiny health kits to test his gut microbiome.
13:02And Knowing that it can change, like, not, not obviously as an infant, but that we can change our gut microbiome, gives me that like a lot of peace of mind, right?
13:13Because I'm like, oh, I don't want him to have a bad start in life, right?
13:16Because his gut isn't right, because he didn't come out vaginally, right?
13:20So I'm just thinking about that.
13:22I appreciate that.
13:23OK, so talk to me more about how your mindset affects the foods that you eat, because that's so fascinating.
13:32OK, so first of all, the thing you tell yourself about the food, like I mentioned, changes how your body processes it.
13:39But it also changes, I guess, how you approach food in general.
13:44Let me give you an example.
13:45So if you're constantly telling yourself, I can't resist sugar, I'm just not a healthy eater, I just, you know, I, I just love food too much to ever be someone who can cut out all those foods.
13:57You're already setting yourself up to be that person.
14:00So.
14:02You, you're telling yourself a story that this is who I am.
14:06And what's gonna happen is your brain wants to make you happy, that like your brain is gonna do everything in its power to make that a reality.
14:15So, just by changing the words you're saying to yourself, that can lead to a massive change, and it seems like such a simple thing, and so many people will say like, oh that's absolutely not possible.
14:28I agree that it's not possible overnight.
14:30It is definitely not possible overnight, but the more and more you tell yourself, Who you want to be in a way that's actually aligned with what you want.
14:40For example, I am a healthy eater, I will choose food that nourish my body.
14:45I really enjoy vegetables and fruits.
14:47And that's one that people are so resistant to, but it's, it's like a game changer.
14:53But once you change that story, you'll start noticing that you naturally start noticing the food that actually aligns with that vision.
15:03So, and it sounds crazy, right, like it sounds like, How will I ever find fruit and vegetable so appealing that that's what I choose over the, you know, hot chips and, and, I can't even think of something now, burger.
15:18, but I, it, it's happened.
15:23I like, I had a situation where I was out, I went on like an overnight trip with friends, and this was probably like 8 or 9 weeks into my quitting sugar and changing my eating habits journey.
15:34And I remember it was like, there's so much junk food, and, you know, I was on holiday, so I was like, yes, I'm just gonna go for it.
15:40And, About a day in, I was like I need some vegetables, like I cannot do this, I can't just keep filling my body with this, and it wasn't even like a oh this is bad for me, this is like I am craving a vegetable right now, so I went out and bought like a cucumber and just was munching on that.
15:56And in my head, I was like, Is this real?
15:58Like, is this happening?
15:59Cause like, like, what, 2 months ago, this would not be the case.
16:04I would be like chowing down on that and just be so happy that I can, you know, eat whatever I want.
16:08So it, it really does affect your brain, the what, what you tell yourself.
16:13So I think it does take time.
16:17And I think 4 to 6 weeks is a good time period to give yourself, but it 100% can.
16:23and the the way you do it is just, is you just choose who you want to be and then just start telling yourself what would actually benefit that.
16:33I mean, I love that.
16:34That's, you heard me talk about my book.
16:36It's called Change Your Mind to Change Your Reality.
16:38Literally, this is what I talk about also, just in such a broader sense than just food, but of course, it would work for food if it works for anything, right?
16:46Like, anything you say after the words I am, you're going to manifest as a reality in your life.
16:52And I've never thought about it in the sense with food, but like, of course, it works, right?
16:58so you said something interesting.
17:00You said, How you think about food affects how your body processes it.
17:05So talk to me a little bit about that because that sounds really fascinating too.
17:10OK.
17:11Have you ever thought of something really delicious like a piece of cake, and then you notice your hands start tingling and your mouth starts like filling with saliva, and all you can think about is eating that cake.
17:24Like right now, yeah.
17:27That's what I mean.
17:28The way you think about food and what you feel and tell yourself about food can actually bring about physical changes in your body.
17:37And there've been studies to show that if you think about something in a, in a positive light, Then your body is actually going to have the same effect as if you were eating it.
17:48So even if you're not eating it, if you think like, oh my gosh, I am craving that piece of cake, I can almost taste it in your my mouth, well, your body's actually gonna react as if you're eating it.
18:00On the flip side, if you think like, oh, you know, I'm really low on energy.
18:05I just want something that's gonna give me heaps of energy.
18:08And, you know, you start really imagining what, what you're gonna eat that's gonna give you that energy.
18:14You'll start noticing an uplift in your energy.
18:17It's, it's actually a technique called mental rehearsal, and I love it because, I actually talk about this in like a couple of videos and things like that, but Mental rehearsal is one of those techniques where if you use that and you can really imagine what you're putting in your body that's benefiting you.
18:34You're actually convincing your brain that it's already happened, which is really cool, right?
18:38Like it's, it's basically like experiencing something twice, but you're not actually even experiencing it.
18:44So that's a really great tool to use, especially in the beginning, because it kind of trains your brain like, this is actually what I want.
18:50It's not the things that I was telling you before.
18:52It's this new thing that I really, really want, and I'm gonna give you as much exposure to it as possible.
18:58That's really cool.
18:59I know I've heard of mental rehearsal for sports players or for musicians, right, where they've actually done tests where people just pretending to play the piano or doing it in their mind or moving their fingers have like learned pieces, and even excelled further than people who practice it, right?
19:17OK, so.
19:19Funny question that popped up.
19:21Can you convince yourself that that piece of cake you're gonna eat is actually healthy and it will give you the same benefits as a vegetable?
19:30You can.
19:30, I hope that no one takes offense to this, but your brain is pretty dumb sometimes.
19:36You can, you can really tell it anything, and it will believe you.
19:38Your, your brain doesn't have the, I guess, exposure to the external world that you have.
19:43And of course, like, like, intellectually you can know something, but you have to remember that a lot of the body systems work on emotion because emotion Energy.
19:53So if you attach an emotion to a particular food, absolutely you can convince your brain, you can convince yourself anything, you know?
20:01You can convince yourself that like chocolate cake is the best thing in the world for you, and your brain's gonna believe it.
20:07But the problem with doing that is, once you do that, it's very hard to reverse it because As well as making you happy, the brain also wants to make sure you stay alive and functioning the best you can.
20:20So if you're telling yourself, oh, this is the best thing I can eat, when you go to then reverse that and say this is not the best thing, your brain's gonna be like, Well, you've just spent however long telling me that this is the healthiest food I can eat.
20:34So now you have to convince me that that's not the healthiest food.
20:38And that's actually where another technique comes in, using imagery and, again, changing the words you're saying to yourself.
20:47To reverse those ideas, and again it's so possible, it's just about repetition.
20:53Yeah, so fascinating.
20:55OK, so you were saying that emotion ties into everything, right?
21:00So if you're eating that piece of cake and you're feeling negative emotions, you're feeling regret about it, or you're feeling guilty, or you're feeling shameful.
21:09What is that gonna do to your body?
21:14So those, those emotions first of all, they're kind of like the overlying symptoms.
21:20So those emotions first of all are going like, sorry, not first of all, but those emotions, they basically make you feel bad about yourself, but unfortunately they're not really great motivators.
21:31So all three of those things that you just mentioned, they will signal that there's something wrong in your body, but underlying all that, there might be this idea that Cake or chocolate gives me excitement, it makes me feel excited.
21:48And the problem is you're layering negative emotions on top of a really strongly ingrained positive one.
21:57So even though you feel all this like shame and disgust with yourself.
22:03Underlying that, you're still feeling like this cake is, is making me feel excited.
22:08And so your body's gonna say, oh, well, if you're feeling all these things, let's get out of that and make you feel excited and put more cake in there.
22:16So you see how this can be like a really big my, the shame binge cycle for that reason because you're really eliciting feelings that aren't great, but unfortunately, the only way your brain knows how to repair that is to go back to the original action.
22:30So it's really like a of a cycle there that really needs to be broken.
22:34I mean, that totally makes sense why people might be overeating or binge eating and feel really shitty about it, but they keep going, right?
22:43That totally makes sense.
22:45So are all of these things drawn from your past experiences, right?
22:50Because like you're like what I teach is like your belief system is so ingrained from your past experiences, the opinions of other people, like all this cultural conditioning that happened as a child usually, so like, how does that all play into your food habits?
23:05It plays in like so strongly.
23:07Food is, food is essential for life, right?
23:10So you can't ever cut it out.
23:12And any association you have with food is usually formed by the time you're 10 to 15.
23:17So before you're even like considered an adult, all your food associations are usually in place.
23:23And of course, you can reverse them, but it takes conscious thought and effort.
23:26But the problem is, once you start functioning on that outdated belief system, in the future, you find it really hard to break it because you're not changing any of the underlying beliefs.
23:41Yeah, that's interesting.
23:43So when you said age 10 to 15, like I think about people who develop eating disorders or disorder disordered eating of any kind, right?
23:51So I know a lot of that does tend to happen in high school, but like, what about when that comes into play, past that mark, like how does, like, talk to me about that a little bit.
24:02So eating disorders are a bit different, eating disorders usually come from the idea that food is a, I guess, cure for some other traumatic emotional experience, and it, It's a very serious thing, but unfortunately, without fixing the underlying problem, the food is actually just a symptom in those cases.
24:25The food, like restriction is, you know, for example, in anorexia, restriction is the symptom of not feeling like you're good enough and not feeling like you'll ever live up to the expectations of the people around you.
24:37And, that's obviously a very basic, Simplified way of looking at it.
24:41But all eating disorders usually come down to an underlying idea about the, your sense of worth and your sense of identity.
24:50And unless that's addressed, the food habits are just gonna keep coming up the same way because they're, again, like they're symptom.
24:57They're not really, they're like a band-aid for what is actually going on.
25:02Yeah, totally.
25:03I think I've also heard that.
25:06Disordered eating, it's, it's like something you can control when you're feeling out of control, right?
25:11When something is out of control in your life, it's like, well, at least I can control this, like this small little piece of my world, right?
25:17I can control what goes into my mouth or what doesn't go into my mouth, OK, so I have to ask because you have this pharmaceutical background, like, how has all of this changed your view of the pharmaceutical industry, right?
25:31Because, you know, so often we hear that we're, we have to take drugs to reverse these kind of things, but you can do it with eating.
25:38So what did that do with your view and are you still a pharmacist?
25:42I am still a pharmacist.
25:44Absolutely, I love pharmacy.
25:46It's it's, it's part of my passion.
25:48I really love the health industry in general.
25:51But here's the thing, I don't disagree with taking medication.
25:55I disagree with the idea of taking medication as the cure-all.
26:00OK?
26:00So, right now, and specifically in the idea of weight loss, there's this drug calledzempic.
26:07It's, it's, you know, taking the world by storm.
26:09Everyone seems to love it or hate it, like have a strong opinion.
26:13The thing is, Zzempic is just a tool.
26:15It's just a tool to be used in the way that will benefit your body.
26:20The issue comes in when people don't they wanna, they use it as like a, this is the easy way out, and they don't actually make the habit changes that would take them further in life.
26:31And that's where I really find there's an issue with taking medication, because, in any condition, if you take medication and you don't make the changes in your lifestyle and your mindset, that medication is a lifelong medication and it is a band-aid fix.
26:46And you're band-aid fixing something that you could actually change with some simple actions.
26:53And I think that's where people make a lot of, I guess they're stuck.
26:57They're stuck in this situation.
26:58And To be honest, Like, like I said, I don't disagree with taking medication, but I just can't, for me personally, I really don't like relying on other things, and I'm a little bit weird because I do like taking the hard road as well.
27:13the easy road is now, I always like take the stairs, I always like try and find, you know, the complicated way to do something, especially physically or like in.
27:22You know, habits, the habits area, because I know that it's gonna benefit me down the long track, but not everyone knows that.
27:28And so taking medication, you, you can actually do it, but I would really strongly advise as a pharmacist and a healthy eating coach, like, make the underlying change, cause otherwise you're just gonna be in this position where you're relying on something else to live a good quality of life.
27:44Yeah, I like that idea because so often in the spiritual community, it's like, you can heal yourself, like everything comes from your mind and your emotions and, you know, drugs are bad, but, you know, there's, there's kind of a time and a place for everything, right?
28:00Like not everything about.
28:02Western medicine is bad, right?
28:04Like if I break my arm, like going to the hospital helps.
28:07And I could see that as like a tool that people people abuse, right?
28:11Or that people just put all of their eggs in that basket and think, OK, this is what's gonna fix me.
28:17I don't have to do the work.
28:20no, I I appreciate that.
28:23It it made me think that, like, does our mindset affect how the drugs interact with our body then too, do you think?
28:29Yeah, absolutely.
28:30The placebo effect is a real thing.
28:32If you're taking something and you believe it's gonna work, of course, your body is going to react to that and Do everything in its power to make it work.
28:40That's not always the case.
28:41There are gonna be obviously some cases where your body really doesn't wanna take that medication and, and it rejects it in some way, shape or form, side effects.
28:49But for the most part, what you believe affects how your body is gonna react to something.
28:56And that is not just with medication, that's with everything, right?
28:59But with medication, If you believe something is gonna work, your body is gonna respond to it so much better.
29:07And you can see this from like medication like just, you know, paracetamol, which I think in where you are is acetaminophen or Tylenol, like those, those kind of words, to like cancer medications.
29:19There's a reason why, you know, alongside of The medication, doctors will also talk about the idea of really believing that your body is capable of changing, your body is capable of recovering, because the more you can accept that and embrace that idea of your body being well, the more your body's gonna try and make that a reality.
29:41I have not heard many doctors over here anyway.
29:45Where, where are you located, by the way?
29:47Australia.
29:48OK, so I've not heard many doctors in the US talk about mindset or really believing it, and it's good to hear that in other places they are, they need to catch up over here.
29:58OK, so what do you think the placebo effect is as a pharmacist?
30:03So the placebo effect is, your brain will affect how your body reacts to something.
30:07That's the way I like that's a very simplified way of saying it, but if the placebo effect can be used in so many ways, like, There's a book about it.
30:17I have it on my bookshelf.
30:20You Are the Placebo by Dr.
30:21Joe Di Spenser.
30:22And yeah, he talks about how like your mind and your thoughts can make things happen that you would only expect to happen in by medication or by like, you know, psychedelics or doing some transcendental, experience.
30:39So it, it, but I've tried this out so much, like, when I was a really young kid, I used to.
30:46Practice this, because I'm a bit of a skeptic, but I also like experimenting, so I'm kind of like, I'm gonna experiment with this, and I remember when I was 10 years old, I was like, I want to see if I can reverse my anger by just changing how I think about something, and, It worked like it was so crazy, but I wasn't changing anything about my external world.
31:06I was literally just changing the way I reacted to something, and I think that is also part of the placebo effect because you're changing your reaction to something based on the thoughts and the feelings you're having towards something.
31:16So.
31:16I think, yeah, placebo effect is so real and it can be applied to so many areas of life.
31:22It's just about finding that right balance of what can I really convince my brain of without all the external chatter coming in and, and unconvincing me of that.
31:33Yeah, OK, so first of all, You're totally talking my like literally in my book, Change Your Mind Change Reality is about how if you shift your perspective and look at something from another point of view, you can completely change your life and that means not being angry about something.
31:47So I want to hear how you reverse that or how you were able to do that yourself when you're experimenting.
31:52And then, oh my gosh, you just said something so genius that I had a question about what was the last thing you said?
31:58Oh my gosh.
32:01do you remember what it was?
32:03Oh no it was.
32:07It'll come, it'll come, it'll come.
32:09Tell me that first.
32:11So, when I was younger, so anger is an emotion, and anger is is really interesting actually, because, it's where your boundaries get crossed and it's this really great philosophical principle called the ladder of fall, and it's something that has fascinated me my whole life since I heard it.
32:31It's basically where when you get angry, you lose, you go through a series of processes and you lose all sense of discrimination.
32:37And that is why in anger, you react in a way that most people say like you're you're reacting from your truest self, but really it's actually from your animal self because you're reacting with instinct rather than with discrimination, which is really what separates humans from animals.
32:53So that's the principle that I really love.
32:55And when I heard it, I was like, OK, I'm gonna try and apply this.
32:58And whenever I got angry, instead of reacting, I would actually just stop, walk away from the situation, take a few deep breaths, and then start using my sense of discrimination.
33:10Did someone really do that to upset me?
33:12Was what, what were they, where were they coming from?
33:15And, there was a, there's a great fictional book called Something Borrowed.
33:20it was made into a movie, but it was, it's really good.
33:22If you read the book.
33:24She talks about how she gives the other person a jewelry in her head, and I was like, This is amazing.
33:31I'm gonna do that.
33:32So I ended up starting to give the other person a jewelry.
33:34And when I was angry about something, I'd be like, OK, if I was in a law court, what would they be saying right now?
33:41As evidence that they weren't trying to make me angry.
33:44And I know it sounds really complicated, and I do sound like I'm talking to myself a lot, but I do actually do that.
33:49Like that, unfortunately, is just how I function.
33:51I love talking to myself, you know, not in a crazy way.
33:55But like, just mentally and By actually seeing the other side and seeing the other's perspective, a lot of the time the anger just went away because it was never, someone was never trying to hurt me, they were just reacting the way they reacted and I use that up until today, and there are very few times I will react out of anger in a way that harms or hurts anyone else for that reason, because I have kind of trained my brain to say, well, if I'm angry, a boundary of mine has been crossed.
34:27I don't want to descend into that space where I just act out of instinct and I'm, you know, trying to, I guess attack like a tiger.
34:34Like I don't want to attack like a tiger.
34:36I want to sit and I want to think.
34:38And then respond in a way that's going to diffuse the situation.
34:41So I guess that's a really complicated way of answering your question, but that's, that's how I deal with that.
34:47I love that answer.
34:48Thank you so much.
34:49And I, I think it's so genius.
34:51And, and by the way, talking to yourself is totally a great thing because we're all thinking trillions of thoughts every day, right?
34:59And, you know, psychologists even say 90% of our thoughts are negative and repetitive.
35:04So what you're doing is Because you're, you're breaking that cycle and you're saying like, wait, I want to actually look at my thoughts and, and figure out, like, is this serving me right now?
35:14So I think that's so genius.
35:16I mean, if, if people don't take away anything else from this episode, I hope they take away that because You know, it's just, it'll completely change your life like it it has for you.
35:26So, so what else have we not touched on that you think is really important for people to know?
35:32I'd really like to talk about, how motherhood can affect habit change because both you and I are new mothers, and I think there are a lot of new mothers out there who could really benefit from that, if that's something you would like.
35:46Yeah, yeah, tell me how motherhood affected your habits.
35:51OK, so first of all, as a mother it's so easy to get sucked into this motherhood journey, and I think a lot of people lose their identity, they lose their space to be themselves.
36:03And one of the ways that they can regain that in a really small sense is just by deciding what kind of person they want to be and then showing up as that person in small ways.
36:15And I, I'm not talking about like, like new mothers in the 1st 6 weeks, cause you like, I still have mombras.
36:25But after that, I think it's really important to recognize that you have this a great opportunity, because as a mother, You are You are able to change who you are in front of someone who has no idea who you are.
36:42They are not familiar with you in any sense other than the like maternal child sense, like you have that bond.
36:49They don't know anything about the world, and they are gonna take all their cues from you.
36:54So this is like a perfect opportunity for you to shape the way you want to be in the future, in the smallest possible sense.
37:02And That's such a cool, like, amazing feeling.
37:08so as a new mother, you're in the like early, early stages of motherhood, and I'm sure you, you kind of have that, that overwhelming sense of responsibility towards your child.
37:20I know I did.
37:22I felt like I, I have to be the best version of myself.
37:26And at, in the beginning, that actually caused a lot of stress because I was like, Oh my gosh, my baby's watching everything I'm doing.
37:31Then I keep, like, I have to keep reminding myself even now, she's she's 1.5, but I have to keep reminding myself.
37:36She has no idea.
37:37So whatever I do, I get to redo it tomorrow and I can say that's the real, like the real way you're supposed to do it.
37:44I get to redo it the next day and the next day.
37:46And that's a great opportunity, right?
37:48Because you can just practice what you want to do.
37:49It's not about being perfect.
37:51You don't have to be perfect about it.
37:53But you can recreate what you want to do and recreate who you wanna be, and I specifically like doing this with the eating space because there's this idea that in motherhood, we just eat whatever's left over from our kid, and we don't really have, The space to make our own meals and enjoy our own food.
38:14And I don't know if you've seen it, but there's this really great meme where it's like, I understand now why, the mama bear's food in Goldilocks was cold and the dad and Goldilocks.
38:27That's funny.
38:28I like that.
38:29, but the reality is, you can make whatever you want and eat it.
38:36And even though it seems like that kid is, is, you have to make separate food for the kid and you have to do all this stuff, reality is, at the end of the day, they're gonna see what you're eating and they're gonna want that.
38:47, I mean, I don't know how many times I've started eating like something that I really wanted and my kids like, I'll take that.
38:54It happened a lot with peaches, which I'm absolutely obsessed with, and I was a little bit, I was happy, but also a little bit sad because I was like, she's eating all my peaches.
39:02, but like I think it's just a really great opportunity, and I think people lose sight of that in this idea that, you know, you have to feed your kid in a particular way, and unfortunately that means making two meals, but you, you don't, you can just feed your kid in the way that nourishes their body but also helps you.
39:22Like, demonstrate to yourself that this is who I wanna be.
39:26I wanna be someone who eats really healthy food, or I wanna be someone who, you know, nourishes my body with the food that actually benefits me.
39:34And it doesn't have to be an all or nothing.
39:36You can still eat the food that you really enjoy that might not be as nourishing, but, I think that's, that's the way I see motherhood.
39:43Like it's a really great opportunity to practice and repeatedly practice in front of someone who they're learning, but They also don't have this idea of the world, so if you make a mistake, you can just redo it the next day and they're probably just gonna be like, oh yeah, that probably is the new way, so yeah.
40:00I like that for so many reasons.
40:02And you've said a lot of things and I have a lot of things to say too, because I, I, I really, really appreciate what you just said.
40:09And, you know, so many people, like you said, lose their identity in motherhood or they're like, oh, my life is over, or like, They, they, they prioritize themselves the lowest, right, out of everyone else.
40:21And thinking about it, or if you're not a mother, any big change that you've gone through, there's always two ways to look at things, right?
40:28This is what we've been talking about, you can change your perspective and completely change your life.
40:33You can look at it as a victim, right?
40:36Or you can be like, wow, this is a really cool opportunity to reinvent myself.
40:41This is a really cool new start of an adventure, right?
40:43Like, I get to be whoever I want to be.
40:47And I don't know about you, but my kid makes me want to be a better person.
40:50Like, I feel like I have so much to learn from him already.
40:53He's 17 weeks.
40:55He wakes up with this huge grin on his face every single day.
40:59He's like the happiest, smiliest boy.
41:01And I'm like, Man, I want to wake up every day with this huge grin on my face and just be like, wow, it's a brand new day.
41:08I'm here in in this body on earth, right?
41:11Like, and it's a new adventure.
41:14And and I just, I love your perspective on that.
41:18And then as far as what you were talking about with the two meals.
41:21You know, I, when I was pregnant, I read one book, and it was bringing up Babe.
41:26I don't know if you read that, but it's all about the French style of bringing up your children versus like the American.
41:33And one thing I really took from it is like, Make your kid fit into your life rather than the other way around, right?
41:42and it goes for everything and I think food's a really big thing, right?
41:45Like you can puree anything, right?
41:47Like, you like you really can.
41:51make whatever you're gonna have for dinner and then just make it kid friendly too for them, right?
41:56Because I mean, A, they're going to get nourishment.
41:59B, they're gonna be have a much better palette, right?
42:02They're not going to be as picky.
42:03Like you said, they're gonna want to eat what you eat.
42:06And, you know, it goes for everything with kids.
42:08Like I see so many people out here just over scheduling their kids like crazy, right?
42:12Like they're in every damn activity and the parents' life has just become like carpooling them from like place to place.
42:19And it's like, kids can be bored sometimes.
42:22Like I'm, I'm literally Going up to Napa, which is the wine country tomorrow, and I'm bringing my 17 week old, right?
42:27I'm going with my mom who's in town and my in-laws and my husband and like, I'm probably not going to drink.
42:32I'm going to be the driver.
42:33It's 45 minutes from my house, but we're going to go out to dinner and we're going to go to a couple of wineries and it's beautiful up there and it's a gorgeous day.
42:40We're bringing the dogs and like, it doesn't have to be like all like all kids stuff, right?
42:46And I just There's ways to fit them into your life.
42:51I don't know.
42:52How do you feel about that?
42:53I love that.
42:55I, I was lucky in that I never had this idea that I had to give up everything for my kid.
43:00and so there's a big part of me that tries to fit her into my life.
43:05But in a way that, I guess she enjoys it as well, and I, I think it's really important to remember with kids like.
43:14Generally they'll just enjoy anything.
43:16Like it's always about that idea that they're learning and they're growing, and at this age, like when they're so young.
43:24They don't know any better.
43:25Like I know it sounds so mean, but they really don't.
43:28If you go to the shops, like, I pretty much use every opportunity of my everyday life, anything that I'm doing as an opportunity for her to have fun.
43:36And for me that's enough.
43:37Like I don't have to take her to special things.
43:40And on the flip side of that, I also use it as an opportunity to learn from her exactly like you said, and, Like, view my world through her eyes, like, oh my God, grocery shopping is super fun because I can just chuck stuff in a, in a, like, in a trolley, you know, walking around, there's so much to see and there's so much fascinating things.
44:01And so that's the way I approach motherhood really.
44:03I just, I try to learn from her as much as I can, but I'm also trying to teach her like, this is how you can live your best life.
44:11and I guess, yeah, like to your point, I think it's I love the idea that your kid wakes up with a grin on his face.
44:17I was like, oh, I need to learn that bit.
44:19I don't know how to do that yet, like my, I'm always like snooze.
44:23Right?
44:24And they have so much to teach us, right?
44:27Like everyone you meet in life is your teacher, and especially the people in your immediate circle.
44:31And I like that idea of as long as your kid is having fun too, and just bringing play back into life, like kids help you relive your childhood, right?
44:42Like it's, it's pretty special.
44:44And it seems like a theme in your life, right?
44:46Like you try and gamify things, you try and make things fun.
44:49And it made me realize that we didn't even.
44:50Talk about how you gamify the food thing.
44:52So can we get back to that?
44:54I want to, I want to hear like how you gamify other things because I, I really like that you have that like lightness about you, right?
45:01Like you try and make things fun and life is fun, right?
45:04Like, we don't have to hold it so heavy.
45:07It can be a really fun adventure to be here.
45:10Yeah, 100%.
45:12I like play is the, the foundation of me, really.
45:15Like I try to make everything fun.
45:17And the way I do that with healthy eating habits is just really just adding, I'm a big gamer.
45:22So, board games, video games, escape rooms, anything, right?
45:26So I just take elements from those and I add them to my healthy eating journey.
45:29That's actually how I made it like one of the ways I made it sustainable in the beginning is I started setting myself challenges, and it wasn't necessarily with Other people, because I found with other people, I would kind of give myself cheat days because, you know, when you're with someone else, you have that sense of solidarity, and if they're not achieving their goals, then sometimes you feel like, OK, it's OK for me not to.
45:51Sometimes it was just with myself, but putting challenges in place, giving myself rewards, this is a huge part of any habit change, but specifically with healthy eating, rewarding yourself in a non-food way can be an absolute game changer.
46:07And also just finding ways to experiment and make it fun.
46:11So one of the really like small easy ways that I do it is I have this goal of mindful eating, and I love.
46:18, mindful eating, but it's something I have struggled with a lot in my life.
46:24and so instead of making it mindful eating, I have to eat mindfully every day.
46:27I have to eat without distraction.
46:29I have a little spinning wheel.
46:30You know, one of those like spinning wheels you get on like Tu and all those, you know, sites where you can get 20% off.
46:35I have that for eating.
46:36And so I basically have put like 5 spokes in different, different aspects of like mindful eating.
46:42And every day I get to choose a different aspect just by spinning my wheel.
46:45And it's such an easy, simple way to Do it.
46:48There are so many apps out there that that can do it for you.
46:51But it just adding that tiny element of fun makes it feel like, oh, it's so exciting.
46:56Like I'm adding something into my, my journey that makes it a little bit less mundane and a little bit more exciting.
47:03And so that's just the way I use gamification.
47:06I think everyone has their own fun style, so it's really important, for me specifically to take that into account, because not everyone is going to find the same things fun.
47:17And using and and I'm all about making it super personalized and super tailored, so using people's individual fun styles means that we can create like a whole eating I guess journey that is so specific and so fun for that person, so yeah.
47:36What a great attitude to go through life with, and the just the wheel with the spokes is so fun, so.
47:42You know, for people who don't even know what mindful eating is, like, tell me a few things on the spokes, like, what are your options each day?
47:49So I've got to slowly.
47:52So, just as an overview, mindful eating is eating while you're completely present on the food that you're eating.
47:57So using all your senses, and trying to eliminate any distractions so that when you nourish your body with the food you're eating, you can, first of all find out where you're full, you can make your own hunger fullness scale and actually adhere to it.
48:12And just doing that as a healthy eating change can be like, It it can really just move you in the direction you want to go so fast.
48:21so some of my spokes are, like I said, chewing mindfully, or chewing slowly.
48:25I think it was the exact thing was chewing 10 times per bite, and then no distractions was one, It was another one.
48:34, sure I have it somewhere.
48:38Anyway, those two are one like some of them, and then also, using my senses.
48:44So I have actually one spoke for each sense like really hearing my food and observing exactly what I hear when I eat.
48:51And it sounds crazy, like some food doesn't have any sound, but actually it does, and it's, it's something that we just completely overlook.
48:59So it's not always the obvious things, it's sometimes just these really subtle things, but just focusing on that particular part of it, can just change a whole eating experience as well.
49:08It's kind of like eating in a fine dining restaurant but having like pasta or like, you know, meat and vegetables.
49:15Yeah, I mean, it's like, it's like making your eating into a meditation.
49:21Yeah, that's pretty cool.
49:23OK, so you mentioned non-food rewards.
49:25What are some rewards that you like to give yourself?
49:28So for me, I like to give myself an afternoon off from everything.
49:32I'll go for a walk, and I'll have my like a phone free walk, which is not something I get off in.
49:41but big rewards can be like going on holiday.
49:43So in, we've already kind of decided in 5 years we're going to go back to Europe and go to Naxos, which is in Greece.
49:49And that's something that, I guess for us is a massive reward.
49:55So it can be as small as an hour to yourself, it can be as, like, you know, medium size thing would be like a new item of clothing or a new tech item that you really want, but you're saving it for a time when you feel like maybe you deserve it or when it's really gonna benefit your life, use that as a reward.
50:16, so it can be anything, but I would, I usually steer people away from food related rewards because there's nothing worse than having like a great week where you hit all your goals and then being like, OK, I'm gonna go and binge on like a piece of cake or, you know, something like that.
50:31That's a problem because then you're, first of all, Or reversing it, you're giving your brain really confusing signals and your brain really lacks clear signals.
50:38So you want to just stick to whatever you told your brain, keep reinforcing that.
50:44So you want really, I guess, non-food related rewards, but something that is appealing to you specifically.
50:51OK, so That's great.
50:54And so it it has nothing to do with the scale though, right?
50:56It has nothing to do with like, once I hit this weight or once I reverse this thing, like it's, it's about sticking to your goals, right, or hitting that next level in your game.
51:07I love that you said next level in your games.
51:10Next level can mean anything.
51:13look, you can use weight as a, I guess, tracking.
51:17It's not the best because I think people put a lot of storing weight, and yes, it is definitely important, but weight's not the be all and end all.
51:25And so even though that could be one level, like, oh, I lose 5 kg, you know, I get to the next level, I wouldn't suggest using weight as your only tracker.
51:33So if you're gonna extend, like go to like 3 levels, use different measures as your levels.
51:38So one level that I personally use is, How do I feel in my body?
51:43How do I fit into my clothes?
51:46So there, that's if, you know, I'm feeling really great and I fit into all my clothes.
51:51And as a mom specifically, when you get to that place where you can fit into your old clothes, oh my God, the feeling is just off the charts.
51:57Like you, you just feel like, Oh, I'm back to normal.
52:00I'm back to me.
52:02I'm, I'm waiting for that moment.
52:05I can't wait.
52:07Oh, you will.
52:08Trust me, you will.
52:09I know you will.
52:10But yeah, so that like non non-weight ones as well are really good to advance your levels.
52:18but you get to choose that.
52:19You get to choose what your levels are.
52:20You get to choose, you know, what is gonna make you feel like you're progressing.
52:24Sometimes that is gonna be weight, of course, like, That is a really important measure, but, it's important to make it really holistic and just how do I feel about my body.
52:3411 level could be like, I feel absolutely amazing about myself right now.
52:39And that's not something you can tangibly measure, but it, when you wake up in the morning, you could wake up feeling like, I am winning today, you know?
52:47So yeah, the, it's, it's different for everyone.
52:51And I suggest you choose things that I guess you know you have to work on and you know that winning that particular thing would just make your healthy eating journey just completely different and you you feel like you've advanced as a person and as an eater.
53:08Awesome.
53:09Well, thank you so much for all of this.
53:11I can't believe an hour has flown by.
53:13I love this conversation.
53:15You know, I'm all about mindset, as I've told you, and, you know, sometimes we forget to to put that on every single aspect of our lives, right?
53:26So I've never really thought about it in the sense of eating.
53:28So thank you so much.
53:29This was really enlightening.
53:30, so for listeners who are, want to hear more, they want to connect with you, they want to know how they can work with you, tell us where we can find you, what you're up to.
53:41So I run workshops every month on different topics but related to the healthy eating space, and you'll find me on like Instagram, Facebook and LinkedIn for those.
53:52I also have a YouTube channel, so if you're just looking for general information about healthy eating, how to make it fun, or just like even like the latest scientific data or something about a medication, that's where I usually post like my informational videos, and I also have like a really great quiz on, My website where you can find your own fun style and like actionable ways to apply that to your own journey.
54:14so yeah, and like a newsletter that I send out weekly as well.
54:17So there's, quite a few ways to reach me, but in general, I just really love giving you tips and tricks to move you forward in your own journey.
54:27So yeah, check those out and see how you go.
54:29Awesome and all of your links will be in the show notes.
54:32So if you're listening, that's where you'll find them, Sania, thank you so much for coming.
54:38It was such a pleasure to get to talk to you for an hour.
54:41If you're listening and this episode resonated, please like, share, subscribe, like definitely send it to someone you think could use it.
54:49And I'll see you all in the next episode.
54:50Have a beautiful rest of your day.