0:00Hi everyone, welcome back to the Change Your Mind podcast, where we explore personal development, spirituality and science.
0:06I'm your host, Kris Ashley.
0:07I'm really excited for today's episode because I'm talking with someone who specializes in burnout with new moms.
0:14And as you all know, my baby is 20 weeks old right now.
0:17We're just talking backstage about how I've been up since 3:30 this morning.
0:21And it's 12:30 now.
0:23OK, but before I get into that, a couple of quick announcements.
0:26If you head to the links in the show notes, you will find a link to sponsor the podcast.
0:30You'll find free downloads, a free live master class that I do.
0:34You'll also find my courses, my book, change your mind to change your reality, and you will find the links for my lovely guest as well.
0:42And as always, this podcast is a part of the Los Angeles Tribune podcast Network.
0:47We are doing a lot in personal development.
0:49We have some amazing events with some incredible headliners coming up.
0:53So please check us out and stay tuned.
0:56Hi, I'm Kris.
0:57When I was younger, I went through trauma that caused me to feel broken and lost.
1:02But my life changed after I had a spiritual awakening.
1:06Since then, I've dedicated my life to studying and learning from masters all around the world that have helped me to create a life of fulfillment and abundance beyond my wildest dreams.
1:15Now I'm dedicated to sharing everything I've learned so that you don't have to suffer for decades like I did.
1:21I've seen people's lives completely transformed, and I share it all right here.
1:28All right, so with me today, I have Abbyang Meister.
1:32So drawing on over 13 years of experience being a coach and the therapist and fueled by her own remarkable journey of turning the impossible into reality, Abby found it evolving whole.
1:43She works with ambitious parents and professionals to conquer burnout, to achieve the life of their dreams and have fulfillment in all areas of life.
1:52Abby is also a guiding light for women on unique journeys, whether it's IVF, the path to becoming a single mom by choice, or navigating the whirlwind of postpartum life.
2:02So Abby, welcome.
2:03I'm so excited that you're here today.
2:06Oh, thank you so much for having me today.
2:07I'm excited to dive in and see where the conversation goes.
2:11Yeah, me too.
2:12And for totally selfish reasons as well, even though I know this is going to help so many listeners.
2:17So I always start my show off the exact same way.
2:20And that is by asking my guests to tell me what their origin story is.
2:24So how is it that you started working with Single moms and women going through IVF and helping them with burnout.
2:34So, I think the original piece I started as being a therapist for 13 years and getting lots of calls for people looking for therapy.
2:44And sometimes people were out of state for me, but I would still take the call cause if that was their first point of reaching out, I didn't want them to get discouraged.
2:54Maybe I knew someone I could refer them to.
2:56And I was finding a lot of people, what they were describing was burnout and stress from just trying to do it all.
3:04, and not taking time, like, not taking time for themselves, not giving them permission to have that downtime.
3:11And then when I turned 40, I decided I always wanted to be a mom.
3:15And I had had many patients that had gone through IVF and I myself then found myself going through IVF.
3:22And so it just felt like this natural transition of, you know, providing coaching and therapy to women who were, you know, trying to explore and figure out their journey to motherhood.
3:34Amazing.
3:35And, and so, by the way, I totally relate to your story.
3:39I also went through IVF.
3:40I tried for 7 years, almost 8 by the time I had my son at age 38, and I have another embryo on ice that I'll probably be 40 when I have her, if it all works out, right.
3:55So just to give everyone a baseline explanation, can you explain what burnout is and what causes burnout?
4:04There's so many different components that can create burnout, and burnout can look like depression.
4:11It can look like, I mean, it's often fueled by a lot of stress, whether in your home life and your relationships and friendships.
4:20Most of the time I see it from people from work situations.
4:24And then when they're not working, they're just on the go, filling up their schedule.
4:29Sometimes with stuff that's fun.
4:30I mean, that was my own story.
4:32I thought, like, I was working and I created a schedule that allowed me to go to the gym, which is great, right?
4:38When you're so go to the gym, it's great for your mental health and your physical health.
4:42and I was doing things I love, which was paddle boarding.
4:44So I thought I was doing everything, but I never had like a moment to sit and breathe.
4:50And You know, I wasn't giving my self permission to like, take a day off from work, you know, and so I think so many people are just like, on this.
5:02This roller coaster and this like hamster wheel, like, I have to do it all and I have to be everything to everyone.
5:09And then they start to feel tired all the time, or brain fog the big one.
5:14They're feeling anxious, they're not connecting with their partners.
5:17They're getting angry and frustrated and overwhelmed.
5:23Yeah, totally.
5:24I mean, again, I relate to that so much, you know, I'm, I'm a new mom.
5:28My baby is 20 weeks.
5:30I have childcare 2 days a week, and it's like, I just want to take advantage of those, those days and work and grind.
5:38And it was like today my husband was like, you have to take a nap.
5:41And I'm like, I don't want to take a nap.
5:43I only have childcare 2 days a week.
5:44Like, I want to take advantage of that, right?
5:47But it's like, it's hard to take care of your physical health that way.
5:51And when you were talking about Barnet, it kind of reminded me of adrenal fatigue too.
5:55Very much tied in there.
5:56So, what comes first, I mean, I'm not 100% sure.
6:00I think there's like the combination, and a lot of times, you know, I see this with people who are athletes that are working out really hard and they're trying to get their body composition or their training for events, but they have a high stress job, and you start to see they're like, they're putting on weight or their performance isn't, you know, as it used to.
6:19So they start pushing harder and harder.
6:23And that just leads to more adrenal stress, and then the burnout, where I've had clients who have physically had situations happen to them.
6:35Like I had one client who was so burned out in life that went on vacation and ended up sleepwalking and broke their ankle so badly.
6:45That's how they came to see me, and I was like, we finally unpacked, like, all that was going on.
6:51And why did, why did they sleepwalk?
6:53And why were they so anxious to return back to work after bed rest, and what was really going on in their life, and they were doing so much.
7:02And I hear you, like, when I have childcare, a few hours a week, like, oh, I feel like I I need to do work during that time.
7:11And sometimes my self-care feels like going to a coffee shop and not working in my house and doing work at a coffee shop right now.
7:19but I try and include like self-care time with my daughter.
7:25Hm.
7:26Yeah, I like that.
7:28So, so how do you balance it all?
7:30Because, you know, I just think about myself like I, I want to exercise every day.
7:35I'm one of those people who like, if I don't move my body, like it, I just go crazy, right?
7:40I have to move every day, even if it's just like a 20 minute walk around the block.
7:44So how do you balance it all, like getting the work done, taking care of yourself physically like that, and, and taking care of a baby?
7:56So balance is a tough work because it's not gonna be completely balanced each day.
7:59But when you look at the bigger picture, are you finding balance?
8:02What and thinking about like, what's the season of life you're in?
8:06You know me say like, OK, this is great.
8:08My, my movement and my exercise today is walks alone or walks with my child in the stroller.
8:16that doesn't mean that the next season or when you have more time, like, You'll do other types of workouts.
8:24you might, you know, for you, Kris, like you'd be like, I'm recording a bunch of podcasts right now.
8:28It's my season, like the next few months, I'm recording some podcasts, and then I'm not recording for a while.
8:34So I think sometimes we have to look at like what season we're in and how we can like balance within that season.
8:38I think giving ourselves permission to take a break.
8:42You know, how many times do we sit down?
8:44I know this happened to me the other day where I was feeling tired and I was like, I have to write this content.
8:49I have this journalist that wants me to, you know, complete this essay.
8:53I have a deadline.
8:53I was like, if I sit and stare at my computer right now, I'm going to sit and stare at my computer.
8:57Like, it's not coming to me.
8:58Let me just put my toddler in the stroller and I'm going to go for a walk.
9:03And then the next day, because I thought I would work that night and I didn't, I was like, I just needed that break.
9:09It flowed.
9:10So I think sometimes giving ourselves permission to take a little bit of a break, and then knowing that that energy and that clarity is going to come.
9:20I really appreciate that it's not balanced every day, but if you look at it as a whole, it really is balanced.
9:26And I appreciate the seasons too, because you're right, like, I don't need to record a podcast every single day that there's childcare.
9:35You know, that's that's super smart.
9:36And I think sometimes it takes a third party to be like, well, you don't have to do all of these things, right?
9:42Yeah.
9:43And I think another piece too, sorry, I think another piece too is like thinking about like.
9:48Within your household, like, what kinds of things Can you let go of that might not be perfect.
9:54Like, OK, there might be some dishes in the sink, or do I Like, how can I get like other support?
10:01And one thing that I've told people is, you know, like, have like this groceries delivered for a season.
10:07You know, if you're like, if you have a busy season, something else you're working on, maybe you have some work deadlines, maybe like, we're coming in the summer, and I know, like, here I live at the beach and Other kids are super active, parents are active, they're driving their kids everywhere.
10:21Like maybe the summer you just have your groceries delivered.
10:24Doesn't mean it always has to be that way, but it's OK to to get outside help too.
10:32I really appreciate that, because, yeah, there's that part of me that's like, oh, I don't want to spend the money to get the groceries delivered.
10:41But knowing that it's just temporary, feels a lot better, right?
10:48And yeah, there's that inner perfection too, where my husband was just saying this, he's like, why don't you nap on the baby naps?
10:54I'm like, if I napped on the baby naps, the bottles would never get cleaned.
10:57Like I wouldn't eat, like, things have to happen, the laundry has to get done.
11:03So, so, so most of these women that you work with, is it, is it burnout that they're experiencing because they're going back to work, or is it that like Feeling of needing like perfection or what is it that you're seeing the most?
11:20With the, with the biggest pieces your identity is shifting, and like we know it, like.
11:27You know it's going to, like, part of your brain, if you're not conscious about it, know it's like, I'm becoming a mom, but you're still, but I'm still me, and I still maybe want my career, or maybe I'm not sure if I want my career.
11:41Maybe I thought I wanted to be a stay at home mom, and I want to go back to work.
11:45Maybe I'm going back to work and I really want to be a stay at home mom.
11:49so I think that conversation can create some burnout too, if you're having that conversation in your head and not talking through it with people.
11:59I think another piece, and something else I was thinking about today was We don't talk about how much support some of us have.
12:08And you see women on social media who were doing it all, right?
12:11They're they're posting pictures, they're doing the laundry, they're playing with their kids, they're working out, they're, they're back to their, you know, pre-baby body, their career is booming, and they're like, wait, but they mentioned once that they had some childcare, but you don't really know what that looks like or how many hours.
12:28And now you're, you might have less childcare, or you might have less support, or Whatever it might be, and you're trying to keep up with what, what we see or what we hear other women doing.
12:41and we don't have to do it all.
12:43And that's the other piece, I think we think we have to, or we should, like the should is there, like we should do it all.
12:49And for me, like in my, you know, pre-mom stage, like I used to do everything, right?
12:54Why can't, why can't I still do all of that and take care of a kid?
12:58How hard could it be, right?
13:00Like I've done hard things before and balanced it all, you know.
13:06Yeah, I like that.
13:07Like I would say don't compare your behind the scenes to someone else's highlight reel, right, like social media, absolutely.
13:14And there, there is that pressure to kind of drop all the baby weight.
13:18And I mean, for me, I want to drop the baby weight because I'm like, I miss my.
13:22clothes.
13:23There's like 4 things in my closet that I can wear right now and I don't want to go spend money on new clothes, right?
13:29It's not even like a body image thing.
13:31I'm like, I look great.
13:32I just, I just can't wear everything, right?
13:36Right, right.
13:37, so.
13:40Yeah, you were talking about like.
13:42Feeling this pressure to have it all, but like, what about the person that wants it all, right?
13:47Like, again, I'm like thinking about myself like I'm a high achiever.
13:50I just, I, I am so passionate about the work I do.
13:54I just got offered this great opportunity that I'm taking.
13:57I'm like, yeah.
13:58I'm going to go do this.
13:59I want to change the world.
14:00I want to go do my career and grow it, and like, also work out and take care of my body because that's important to me and also make sure that I'm like really there for my baby.
14:10So like, what about the people who aren't feeling pressure, they just want that.
14:15Yeah, I mean, that's a great question, and I'm with you.
14:18I'm like, I want to do all of it, but how do I do all of that?
14:21And can I bring my child with me everywhere that I go?
14:25And some opportunities you can.
14:27So I think I come back to seasons.
14:30Like sometimes there's opportunities that you just are like, I can't pass this opportunity up.
14:34I know that, you know, whatever that might be, might be a few months, whatever, you know, put your own boundaries to it if you can.
14:43I know that it's a short season, or if it's a longer season, like, what else do you need?
14:49I think a lot of times we don't think about, like, what else do we need to support those dreams and how can we get those things.
14:56and there's lots of options out there.
14:59Think outside of the box.
15:00Like how I was like, I was at a networking event.
15:03I said, I want to go.
15:04Can I bring my daughter?
15:05They were like, Yeah, sure.
15:06You know, I think there's, there's times where things are appropriate for that.
15:12and again, coming back to really thinking of like, if I had a magic wand, right?
15:18And I could say, I need this to be able to have my high achieving dreams and nurture my child and nurture myself, what are some things that I need for support?
15:29And just put it out there to your partner or whoever your support system is, and, and other people too, and say like, how can I get this?
15:38Cause sometimes, like, there is that ability, or someone else might say, Well, here's another idea for you of how to do all of that.
15:46I like that, it's like, you can apply that to so many things in life, right?
15:49Like we get so tunnel vision, like it has to work this way, when really there's millions of ways it could work, right?
15:57We're just not seeing them and we're not exploring them.
16:00And I appreciate like, talking to the people around you.
16:04So what kind of things do you recommend for women to like help them to destress to help fight burnout?
16:12Is it meditation?
16:13Is it like, what kind of things?
16:16So, my biggest thing is talking about like creating your ideal schedule.
16:21And there are gonna be, you know, I've worked with teachers, I've worked with nurses, I've worked with surgeons, people that create their own schedule, people in retail where they get their schedule like for the next week on Sunday.
16:35Still, like, take a look at your schedule and create that time, and put an appointment in there for yourself.
16:43Whatever that might mean.
16:44It might be a walk, it might be meditation, it might be reading a book, it might be going to the gym, it might be baking cookies, you know, and that appointment you can't touch.
16:55You know, if some unless like another friend wants to meet up for coffee and you're like, yes, it's gonna like energize me, it's gonna make me whole.
17:03No, but you're not gonna fill that time with work, It's important to have that time.
17:09And what works the best, whatever works, self-care for you, you know, like, it might be meditation, it might be journaling.
17:19For me, I, I do a lot.
17:21Another thing is I think of a lot of things that I can do with my daughter that feels like self-care.
17:26So I love hiking, and I love going to the beach.
17:29I've had to reframe what exactly that looks like with a toddler now.
17:35And knowing like It might not go exactly how I want it to go.
17:40So to be prepared for that, maybe I get, I mean, there's been times where I've gotten to a hike and she's snapping in the car, and I'm like, alright, we're just doing a car nap, and by the time she wakes up, we don't have time to hike.
17:51But at least I'm here looking at nature, you know.
17:54, so I think you can incorporate some self-care in doing stuff with your children, and I think it's good because it teaches them that too.
18:03Hm.
18:04Yeah, and I, I love that you tack that on at the end because.
18:09It's so important to take care of ourselves because we're modeling that for our children, right, which is why I like want my, my son to even at 20 weeks old, see my husband and I working out every day, right?
18:19Like it's important, Awesome, you know, I, I just realized there was a part of your story I wanted to hear so bad.
18:27It was about the Bermuda Triangle, and I, would you mind just sharing that, like your own burnout story, because I think that might help users just relate a little more.
18:37I was, so I was paddle boarding competitively, And I was signed up to do a fundraiser to paddle around Bermuda, circumnavigate it, And again, I was in amazing shape.
18:52I would work out with a trainer a few days a week.
18:55I was eating what I, you know, I was eating, you know, perfectly, whatever perfectly looks like, right?
19:02and I was working Monday through Thursday, and then Friday, Saturday, Sunday, I would be like off traveling to different places, meeting new people.
19:11I just really felt like I was living my best life.
19:16And then I have like, A minor like, stressful situation happened, and I was like, oh, this is fine, like, I'm all right.
19:26And I started paddling.
19:29This race in Bermuda, and it was beautiful, but it was also scary because I did not see anyone else for like most of the race.
19:39My phone died in the midst of the Bermuda Triangle, I didn't know my radio wasn't working until later in that race.
19:49And I sat down on my board because I was getting the chills.
19:53It was, it was hot, you know?
19:55And I was like, I have the chills.
19:57What is going on?
19:58And I, you know, I was in the middle of a race and I sat down and I am not now that I'm a mom, I'm a crier, but I was not a crier.
20:05I sat down on my board and I started to cry.
20:07And I was like, I don't know what to do right now.
20:09I'm in the middle of the ocean here.
20:14And all of these thoughts were running through my head of like situations and like what I was doing with my life, like, everything was just flooding in at one time, and My body had never felt so tired, but I was at like my best shape that I thought ever.
20:35And so I finally took some, you know, like a few moments and I was able to like compose myself, and I actually was like, I'm just gonna stop this race, and I like took my board to the beach, And it's funny, this British family.
20:50I was like, I'll take your photo, like I peered out, they're like, where did you come from?
20:53I'm like, the water over there.
20:54And then I realized they were like, this is so amazing.
20:56And I was like, I guess.
20:58And then, something just was like, you have to finish this, but when you finish this, you need to really rethink what you're doing.
21:05And I did not push hard to finish the race.
21:09I did get some boat support for a little bit, and then I finished it.
21:12My body just did not want to recover from that race, like physically, and I was so drained and I love the ocean, and I love paddle boarding.
21:25It's like, not for the competitive nature.
21:28The moment my brain was like, You don't want to paddle board anymore.
21:33And I was like, that can't, no, I love this, and I didn't want to give up something that I love, so I knew I had to come home and like rethink what I was doing.
21:44Yeah, and so I really started reshaping every, every aspect of my life.
21:50You know, I took time off from working out.
21:54I was seeing a therapist.
21:55I was, you know, diving into different areas in therapy then, And really, you know, listened more to my body because I wasn't.
22:04I was ignoring all of the signs that I was burning out.
22:11Wow, thank you so much for sharing that story.
22:13I I should have like started by asking you about that, and that's terrifying, by the way, being in the middle of the ocean, not seeing anyone and just being that exhausted, that your body is like physically starting to give out on you.
22:28And, and I like that you said that all of these other things were flooding and it wasn't even like, how am I going to get out of this situation.
22:35It was like, what am I doing with my life, right?
22:38Because it sounds like those were things that maybe were coming up that you hadn't really paid attention to.
22:43And then when your body was physically exhausted, it was like, you can't keep this away anymore.
22:47So we're just gonna like Just flood in right now.
22:52is that kind of how it works with most people they like reach that point where it's just like, Yeah, we kind of like, yeah, we kind of ignore all those symptoms.
23:01It's, you know, how many times do you hear people like, never get sick and then they go on vacation and they like get a cold or they get the flu.
23:08It's because we can like ignore so much of what's going on in our body.
23:14sometimes it's survival mode, sometimes it's, you know, that we're so determined to do things and to follow whatever path that we think we should be doing.
23:26And sometimes we are doing like, I thought I was doing all the right things.
23:29I was, you know, seeing my therapist.
23:31I was working really hard.
23:34I was going to the gym.
23:35I was doing so much, but I was doing too much.
23:39You know, I wasn't ever taking time to just stop and breathe.
23:44and I think that happens so often for peoples we don't feel like we can take a day.
23:51Here and there to just stop and breathe, take a moment to say, like, what am I really doing?
23:56And I say like it was like the best time of my life because I was having a lot of fun and meeting a lot of people, but I also wasn't aware.
24:05I knew I wanted to be at that point in my life, like the path, I was having fun, but that's not necessarily the path I wanted to be on for my career, and some other areas of my life.
24:18But I was having a lot of fun.
24:22Yeah, I like that.
24:23It wasn't that you were doing a bunch of stressful things because a lot of times when I think about burnout, I think about like, maybe listeners do too about someone who's just like grinding at their 9 to 5 and they're not happy, and it's like, not the path they want to be on, and not the job they're happy in.
24:39But, But you were happy and I, I, as you were talking, I was like, Oh, I have a similar story.
24:44Like right before COVID happened, I was working at this yoga company.
24:48I was director of West Coast operations.
24:50I was literally working from the moment I woke up until the moment I went to sleep 7 days a week.
24:55But I loved what I was doing.
24:57And then when COVID happened and all of a sudden everything shut down, it was like this sigh of relief that I didn't even know I needed.
25:04So I, I really relate to that.
25:08And you know, I'm such a believer, like we talk about spirituality a lot in this podcast.
25:12I'm such a believer in like, if you're not on the path you're meant to be on doing what you're supposed to be doing, like the universe will give you signs and give you signs and then it gets louder and louder and then it just like takes you by the shoulders and shakes you, right?
25:26And it sounds like that's, that's kind of burnout, right?
25:29Like, or it can, it can show up like that, and it sounds like it happens that way for you.
25:35So I think it's really interesting that you went from being a therapist to a coach.
25:40Can you tell me a little bit about why you did that and like what, what, what benefits are there for being a coach versus a therapist?
25:50Yeah, I still practice as a therapist in New Jersey.
25:54but I became a coach because I was hearing from people that I couldn't work with because I could only work with people if they had their feet in New Jersey.
26:04And I was like, wait, some of these clients, they don't have.
26:07A mental health diagnosis or that's not what they are coming to see me for.
26:14So I took a hard look at Do I want to become a coach?
26:18Like, what's the, you know, what are the boundaries between the two?
26:22Can I do both?
26:26And I started like slowly transitioning into coaching.
26:29I also felt like I wanted to reach more people, and not that I couldn't do that as a therapist, but I wanted to see more people.
26:37In like doing worktops and courses and running some groups because There's just an abundance of people who are Feeling exhausted every day and not feeling content and not finding the joy in, in their day to day tasks.
26:55And I want people to have that.
26:57I want people to say, wait a minute, this path that I'm on, somehow I'm on it, and that's not where I want to be.
27:03And so I, I, I'm so passionate.
27:05I want people to know that like, you can break out of that box that you put yourself in, get off that hamster wheel, and you can change it.
27:13And here's some strategies and tools to get you there, and some inspiration.
27:18And, you know, it's like this fine line of, you know, being a therapist and telling how much do you tell of your story and sessions.
27:26And as a coach, you can tell a little bit more of your story.
27:29and since I'm doing both, I put it out there, you know, cause I want to inspire people, but I'm not taking up my sessions with that.
27:38Yeah, I mean, really my goal is just to inspire people and give them some strategies and tools so they don't end up, so they don't end up to like being shook or being physically sick or whatever.
27:49Let's try and catch it before that, or like relationships breaking up or, retiring and, and looking back and saying like, I didn't live my life how I wanted to and having lots of regrets.
28:04I don't want people to get to that point.
28:07Yeah.
28:08Yeah, and it's, I, I, it's so important because If we, if we ignore those signs, the universe is going to make that choice for us or source or whatever you say, but we always have the capacity to make our own choices, right?
28:23And to like really listen to our inner being and be like, is this what I want?
28:26Am I happy?
28:27Am I doing too much?
28:30And and being able to pivot before, you know, catastrophe strikes, right?
28:34And again, you have that dark night of the soul moment.
28:38And yeah, like, I think about that all the time too, like, I don't want to be on my deathbed regretting anything, right?
28:45That's why like, I'm taking the risks and I'm doing the things and I, you know, I think the people who listen to this podcast are in that same kind of mindset as well.
28:54So another kind of area of of people that we haven't talked about yet is women going through IVF.
29:00So how do you help them specifically or what, what are some things you're seeing?
29:06That they're struggling with and how are you helping?
29:09I think one is making the decision because it's such, you know, as you know, like a financial piece too, and the financial burnout of that, There's lots of decisions of, you know, what path do we go?
29:23Like, how many rounds do we do?
29:25Like, the what ifs that come up.
29:29so I help like women kind of talk through that process and their partners, if their partners want to join in, And really like how to manage some of the, the stress and anxiety as you're going through it, you know, like you're And you're injecting yourself like twice a day, or whatever your path is, and then, you know, you're coming up to like retrieval and how you're feeling about that and transfer and, you know, how many embryos, which embryo do you transfer?
30:01Like, there's so many questions that You don't even think about until you're going through it.
30:06And who do you have as a supportive sounding board that is not Directly involved that you can really, like, talk through that in a different way.
30:19And then give strategies and techniques like how to manage, you know, the stress or the outcomes of that.
30:27Well, you can't manage the outcomes, right?
30:29Like, and that's part of the, the stress of it.
30:32And, and yeah, it's not just financial, it's emotional, it's physical, it's hormonal, right?
30:38Like the medication, I mean, the medication alone, what it does to your hormones and then you're like trying, you know, there's Like, what coping strategies can you use when your hormones are just telling you to be a different person in that moment?
30:53You're so flooded with all of these hormones, and then the emotions on top of it, Yeah.
31:04It's It's nice to be able to support women through it and be able to be like their safe place to come and be able to say the things in their head that they don't necessarily always want to put out there to other people.
31:18Yeah, yeah, and I was just thinking too, like the other thing is like, it made me gain a ton of weight, right, going through, and I went through.
31:25Fertility treatments for years.
31:27It's not like this is a quick thing for people, right, especially people who are doing multiple, multiple rounds.
31:34So what are some, just a couple of coping mechanisms that you've offered people that have really helped?
31:40Mhm.
31:43So I think again, you know, when you're going through IVF, you know, I had this whole for me personally, I had this whole different vision of like what pregnancy would look like.
31:53And then when you go through IVF, you know, you're putting on weight because of the medication.
31:59You're Putting on weight because you, you know, can't be as athletic as you wanted.
32:04So like, how can we still feel good about our bodies and move our bodies, you know, so giving them permission to move in different ways that, of course, are cleared by their doctor.
32:17I think a lot of it is mindset work.
32:20So what can they do daily to help with their mindset?
32:23One of my favorite things, I love music, and when I, one of the things I've had clients do, which they've loved is creating a playlist that is meaningful to them as they're going through the IVF.
32:34Process of songs that are calming or relaxing or that are, you know, inspiring and motivational.
32:43and listening to that, like as you're driving to your monitoring appointments, or maybe as you're, you know, doing, you know, your injection or you're heading to retrieval, like Something like that to really take you out of where you are at that moment, and that can be like your playlist for, for that time in your life too.
33:05I'm laughing because I, I literally and I just pulled it up on Spotify.
33:09So I have my like Apa playlist, and it's unstoppable by Sia, song by Rachel Platin, Superman by Goldfinger, which is super old school.
33:18Don't give up on me.
33:21and it was like my husband and I had a ritual, right?
33:24Like while he was prepping it, the first song would come on like unstoppable, and then like right when we were about to.
33:28Jack like fight song would come on and then like while I was sitting there, like, trying to massage it out, like Superman would come on and it's I love that you said that because that like got me through those freaking shots.
33:39And by the way, it's more than just twice a day for people who are listening, like, I think the most I had was like 5 or 6 a day.
33:47And it was just, yeah, so it's, it's.
33:52It's a process, but I love that you incorporated music.
33:55That's, that's super cool and movement.
33:58Yeah, yeah, and I think creating like that ritual, like the timing of it.
34:02You know, like, where are you during that afternoon shot?
34:05You know, I remember having to like, In between clients, try and like prep it, prep myself, like, and be relaxed, and then I was like, what am I doing?
34:15Let me just I can move some clients around, give myself like a bigger window, you know, just so I could do it in a relaxed state instead of rushing, plus you're like measuring and I was like, I don't want to screw this up.
34:27Like this is.
34:29I don't want to mess this up.
34:33I think like that creating that ritual piece is nice too, and helping people find like what feels good for them.
34:41Yeah, I like that you, you're like, wait, I can just move clients around.
34:45That just ties back to everything we've been talking about where it's like, it has to be this way.
34:49And then it's like, oh wait, no, it doesn't.
34:52I can like soften a little bit and hold things a little lighter and move things around.
34:57So it's like, you need to relax your muscles when you're injecting, right?
35:00Like if you're tensing, oh shit hurts.
35:03Right.
35:04And you know, like I had a client who was a teacher who was like, Well, I'm just going to try and time it.
35:09I'm like, well, it doesn't necessarily work that way, depending on, like, your clinic.
35:12I'm like, you can't necessarily time everything based on your school year, because it might not work with like your cycle, with what the clinic cycle is.
35:21I was like, you can, you know, giving people some options.
35:23I was like, look into like FMLA paperwork and say, like, I'll be in.
35:27Yes, I'm a teacher, but I won't be in until like 9, you know, because I have to do monitoring.
35:34It's a season, you know, like, hope, you know, like maybe it's just one season, or it's like a few weeks of, I mean, depending on what you're doing.
35:43Of monitoring, it's not forever.
35:46So, Take the FMLA, that's what it's there for, you know, or if you have a 9 to 5 job, you know, like, Work, I've worked with them in like, how to communicate, because they don't often want to tell their employers what they're, they're doing either, but how to communicate, like, can I switch my schedule around to come in a little bit later or come in early and leave a little bit early, you know, for this time frame.
36:13and again, like how to word it to people and how to, like, when people ask you questions, like, how, how, how to respond to that?
36:23That's a whole other thing, absolutely the question.
36:27Yeah, and you just made me think about like rearranging things with employers, like I'm like pumping after you give birth it's like a whole other thing, right?
36:37Like, I just signed up to do these, these events, these big personal development events like 4 times a year, and I'm like, OK, how do I, how do I pump and feed my baby while I'm away when I'm like, just producing enough and like can't create a stash yet.
36:54So.
36:56I mean, what's your advice for women with that too, or like some women have to pump in the office and then do they put it in their company fridge, like, what kind of things do you tell people?
37:07Yeah, I think One, checking in with yourself on your comfort level of like how and where you're going to pump and I mean, I always heard like motherhood takes up your modesty and I'm like, I don't, I mean, I was always like super mod, like, I'm like I've pumped in Starbucks like I don't, I have like a portable one that I really like.
37:30And so I'll be like, you know, like you can still see it, like, kind of, you know, and people would have to look, you know, I try and wear something like maybe a little bulkier, but I'm like, I have to pump and feed my baby, you know, And like, I've been pumping and driving in the car, like, you know, Because you can't always time it.
37:54So it's communicating with people, I think, like, hey, this is the time that I need, and seeing what other arrangements, I think so much, so often we might not be assertive in our needs.
38:08I know I am someone who likes to, you know, make other people happy and I haven't always asked for what I need.
38:16And now becoming a mom, I definitely am working on that muscle and saying like, hey, I, I can't do that meeting at 4 o'clock.
38:25I could do at 4:30 because I know I can pump during that time.
38:31So, yeah, put it out there.
38:33What do you need?
38:34Where do you put it?
38:35I just have always stored it in like a cooler bag, but I haven't been gone.
38:40That long, a full day.
38:44And I know, like, laws from state to state, they have to make accommodations too, and I know they make all types of like, Fancy Pumping kits and I don't know, cause I haven't had to worry about that.
38:59I've had clients who have just put it in a cooler like next to their desk, like, and they have like, kind of like a Yeti or article and they just put ice in it and keep it cold during the day.
39:09Yeah, yeah, and then I also just heard that you can fly and like TSA will let you through with bottles, but I don't know about that if you're traveling without your baby there.
39:19You might need the baby there.
39:21No, my friend, She was traveling a lot and she would, I mean, she'd pump on a plane.
39:26I was like that.
39:29I was like, what pump do you have?
39:30And I think she has like the, you know, the one that, like the bigger one, I can't think of what it's called.
39:36I'm like, how do you do that and not like expose yourself to everyone?
39:39She's like, I don't care to feed my baby.
39:41Like, I try and like, cover up as much.
39:44But yes, like one time she was doing a lot of flying.
39:47One time they asked to like test the milk and she declined and they still let her through.
39:53She was like, I'm not opening up my breast milk and And like a Ziploc baggie for you to test it, and they were like, OK, and they just like let her through.
40:04I just flew.
40:05I didn't have, I mean, I just flew and I had like baby food packets and snacks for my daughter.
40:11She was with me and they were fine.
40:12, but yeah.
40:16I would just check the airline.
40:18I would just check the airline.
40:20Mhm.
40:20Yeah, and then like, as you were talking about, you know, just speaking up for yourself and putting it out there, like, we forget like so many other people are parents, right?
40:29Like, they've they've probably been through something similar, or they know what it's like, or they're, they've seen their wife go through it, right?
40:37So, you know, we forget everyone else is a human being too, right?
40:39We're not just like in this alone.
40:42Yeah, yeah.
40:43And I would say like finding support.
40:45You know, finding New supports too that understand where you're coming from is really, has been really helpful to me too, of like, who are those moms that get it?
40:55And who are those moms?
40:57And I try and do this where I'm like, you're doing a great job, and it's so a stranger, like a mom just like, You know, doing whatever.
41:04I saw this mom with a newborn and two younger kids walking to the beach and like carrying the big beach bag.
41:10And I was like, You got this.
41:11Like, do you need help?
41:12Like, she's like, No, I'm good.
41:13I'm like, All right, you got this.
41:14And you know, like that was helpful to me when I was traveling.
41:17And a mom just came over and she's like, you're doing a great job.
41:20Like you're just doing, I saw you, you're just doing a great job.
41:23And I was like, that means like so much to just hear those those words.
41:27And I think like, for listeners out there too, like, don't forget to tell the moms in your lives that they're they're doing a good job, because I don't think we hear it enough.
41:36There really is kind of like this club that you join, right, once you become a mom, like, people reach out with the, like on social media, like people in my network that I am not close friends with with advice or with ideas or whatever, you know, or even just that like you're rocking it and.
41:53Yeah, you kind of do feel like initiated into something, right?
41:56, so is there anything that we haven't touched on today that you feel is really important to get out in this episode?
42:10I think dream of what you want, motherhood, life, whatever to be.
42:17Take some time, get out in nature and do, which is always my favorite suggestion.
42:21Go out in nature, turn your phone off, tap in, listen to yourself.
42:25Like, what is it that you're really dreaming?
42:28And no matter how unconventional it seems, Start looking at it and start taking some small steps to get there, because it is achievable, it is doable.
42:39I love that.
42:40That's such a great message to leave off with.
42:42So if there are any new mothers out here, when going through IVF or just women who want to connect with you, how can they find you, how do you work with people, what's your contact information, all that?
42:55Yeah, so I run a couple courses and a couple group cohorts throughout the year.
43:00I also take one on one clients, so you can always reach me at evolvinghole.com or on Instagram, evolvinghole.
43:09I also run the Ambitious Mamas Collective, which is for Self-driven moms who are looking for support to nurture themselves and their careers, talk about wins and challenges.
43:20We kind of started off with a reflection or journal prompt, and then we go from there.
43:25We meet once a month on the 3rd Thursday of the month.
43:30that's all on my website for details.
43:35It's been a really nice group of women.
43:38Partial, like some women have gotten together and done some collaboration groups.
43:42Some women just figuring out different ways to support each other and talking through, you know, strategies and wins and again, that reflection period for someone who used to journal more often, I don't journal enough, so it's a great time for me to sit down and reflect on where I'm at.
44:00It sounds wonderful and it's, it's everything you were talking about, right?
44:04Find your support system.
44:06So thank you so much, Abby.
44:07I really appreciated talking to you.
44:09Hopefully through my own questions, other people can have answers to theirs as well.
44:14And if you're listening and there is a mom in your life that you think could really use this, please send it to them.
44:20Like, comment, share, subscribe, all the things, and I will see you all next time.
44:26Have a beautiful rest of your day.