Hi Everyone, welcome back to the Change Your Mind podcast.
0:02 I'm your host, Kris Ashley.
0:04 I explore personal development, spirituality and science.
0:07 And today I'm really excited.
0:08 We're going to talk about value-based decision making, how to stop people pleasing, setting your boundaries, all that good stuff that I think most of us really need to hear.
0:17 All right, first couple.
0:18 Quick announcement.
0:18 So head to the link in the show notes.
0:20 You will find a link to sponsor the podcast.
0:22 You'll find links to my free masterclass, free downloads.
0:26 You'll definitely find a link from my book, Change Your Mind to Change Your Reality.
0:30 It was endorsed by Bob Doyle, Michael Beckwith, Marcy Shimoff, all from the Secret, and a bunch of others, John Gray.
0:36 And let's see what else.
0:38 Oh, courses and of course, all the links for my lovely guests as well.
0:42 So speaking of my guest with me today, Hi, I'm Chris.
0:47 When I was younger, I went through trauma that caused me to feel broken and lost.
0:51 But my life changed after I had a spiritual awakening.
0:55 Since then, I've dedicated my life to studying and learning from masters all around the world that have helped me to create a life of fulfillment and abundance beyond my wildest dreams.
1:04 Now I'm dedicated to sharing everything I've learned so that you don't have to suffer for decades like I did.
1:10 I've seen people's lives completely transformed, and I share it all right here.
1:16 I have Kristen Odegaard, and Kristen is a women's life coach.
1:21 She's also an educator, trainer, fitness fanatic, and mom who is passionate about personal growth, wellness, and living intentionally.
1:28 Kristen's mindset coaching empowers women to create more calm, ease and joy in their lives without guilt, overthinking, or requiring other people to change.
1:37 So welcome, Kristen.
1:37 I'm really glad you're here.
1:40 Thank you so much for having me.
1:42 I am really looking forward to this conversation.
1:44 This is one of my favorite things to talk about, so I will, probably have too much to say.
1:52 That's all good.
1:52 I'd rather it be that way than not enough.
1:56 cool.
1:56 So you said you listened to a couple of podcasts of mine before, so you know how I start every episode, and that is by asking my guests what their origin story is.
2:05 So please tell me your story.
2:06 How did you get to become a women's life coach who focuses on these things?
2:10 Yes, thank you.
2:11 , so my origin story, of course, like, lots of people, it, wasn't always smooth sailing.
2:20 And so I generally start this in about 2016.
2:25 And at that point, I discovered my husband at the time was having an affair.
2:30 He wanted a divorce.
2:31 I was trying to fix our marriage.
2:34 our kids were 5 and 9 at that time.
2:37 And I was really just at loose ends.
2:42 We eventually separated.
2:44 And then the following year, as our divorce was finalizing, I was having to move.
2:50 my mom was diagnosed with stage 4 brain cancer and so there was just This complete upheaval of really everything I knew in my life.
3:00 My parents lived just a few blocks from us, so we were, we were very close.
3:03 So my family as I knew it no longer existed.
3:08 My, I wasn't in the home that I wanted to be in, trying to support my kids and, and grieving from some of these different losses.
3:20 And I was going through therapy, which, you know, most, most people need that was helping with some of the depression, but I also got to a point then where in my life, it's like, what's next?
3:32 It's not so much that I'm Depressed or, feeling, feeling anxious anymore with those clinical diagnosis, but I need somebody to help me figure out what's next, because all of my dreams and, and hopes that, you know, were, were kind of centered along this, traditional nuclear family sort, sort of structure wasn't there.
3:56 And I found that I had a really hard time.
4:01 Even imagining anymore.
4:03 I didn't know what to do.
4:04 I didn't know where to start.
4:05 And so that's where I had discovered coaching and Being in the fitness field for many years as well.
4:13 I had, I'd worked with trainers.
4:14 I'd worked with nutrition coaches.
4:16 So I had kind of that, that background.
4:18 But it was the first time I'd really worked with anybody in terms of mindset and how to think differently and to change some beliefs.
4:26 And taking a look at beliefs that, man, I was holding on to them so tightly, but they were not serving me anymore.
4:35 And the process of being able to have to decide, do I want now it's a conscious choice.
4:42 Do I want to hang on to this?
4:44 Or am I ready to think about things differently and then act differently?
4:50 So that's how I discovered coaching.
4:52 It was such a transformational experience for me.
4:56 , that I originally started relationship coaching and dealing with others, on a fair recovery and, and betrayal.
5:06 And then I decided I really want to be more proactive.
5:08 And that's when I launched this iteration of my business.
5:11 It's been about 3 years now where I've been doing one on one coaching, primarily with women, but I do work with men and Taking a look at your mindset and how your thoughts are gonna lead to your feelings and eventually, create your results, things that you believe, and, really just kind of creating the life that you want, which so much comes from your thinking.
5:37 , so that's, that's the origin piece.
5:42 Thank you so much for sharing your story.
5:43 I really appreciate your vulnerability, and I think a lot of people will relate to your story, right?
5:49 And it's, it's funny, I always start these episodes the same way because everyone kind of has a similar story, right?
5:56 People had to go through that dark night of the soul, their world falling apart, and we all have a choice when that happens, you know, we go.
6:04 Through it.
6:05 And it's hard and we feel all the things, but then we come to that crossroads where we can live in that space, or we can kind of pick ourselves up and, and work on healing, start to work on the healing journey.
6:15 And the people who choose that oftentimes, once they reach a certain point, they want to go back and help others.
6:21 And it sounds like that's what you did as well.
6:24 And I think you also, I appreciate that you highlighted why coaching can be so impactful.
6:30 Right, because, because sometimes we know we we're like, I have to, I'm still alive, right?
6:36 I have to, I have to do something with my life, but I just have no idea where to start.
6:40 And I think that that's such a great image of like a client, right?
6:45 Like if you're in that space and you're listening, start to seek out a coach, they can help you so much.
6:52 so I know that you focus on value-based decision making, Not people pleasing, not feeling guilty, setting boundaries, like why those aspects?
7:02 Yeah.
7:02 So I was doing general life coaching initially, and, what I noticed was that with, I, I was finding and growing, learning about myself during that process as well, but also the clients that I was attracting tended to be, women that were working outside the home.
7:23 They were, Maybe they call themselves high achievers, Type A.
7:31 you know, women who had, strong goals and things that they were working for, but were also really hard on themselves.
7:39 And so, as I was kind of going through that first year.
7:44 And I started recognizing I'm having the same conversations over and over again about, how do I do things for myself?
7:53 Because I've gone on autopilot and it seems like I do things for my kids, for my family, for my co-workers, you know, everything else that needs to be done, and I'm getting lost in that process.
8:05 And I know for me, and then working with my clients that once we really were able to identify some of their core values, it was kind of a, an anchor, is an analogy I like to use, because once we discovered what their individual values and priorities are, you know, what really matters?
8:26 Why are you doing what you're doing, then it opens up so much more awareness.
8:31 You can say no to the things that really aren't in alignment with your life anymore.
8:35 It helps with your time planning with your, finances.
8:40 And also, then it also gives you some confidence to set boundaries if you need them.
8:45 , for your time, for your energy, for your money.
8:50 again, all of those resources, because you're very clear on this is what I want and what I need.
8:56 And often, I feel like women especially need permission to say no or to set boundaries, or they feel like they need permission.
9:05 So, this process where we really work on our, our values first, helps to put everything else into alignment and clarify and make some of those conversations easier.
9:19 Why is it that you think women have a hard time saying no?
9:23 No.
9:24 So, so many things.
9:25 I think it's from the way that we were socialized.
9:30 I, we, we come from a patriarchal society, and women were raised often to be nurturers, to be the caretakers, to, you know, manage the home, do a lot of those traditional kinds of things, and those are fine.
9:47 But often, Our women's voices weren't necessarily heard or prioritized in that conversation.
9:54 And I think that's shifting, but also it just depends on the culture and the environment that you grew up in, and it's also is impacted by, your work history and and things like that.
10:07 So it's so common.
10:10 Unfortunately, that I think people think that's the way it should be and that that's OK.
10:15 And I, you know, I think we're seeing a lot more now about conversations about the, you know, labor in the households and the division of labor in the households and, and Trying to equalize that a little bit more.
10:29 And so often women, they weren't raised or had role models that necessarily expressed that, that were able to put boundaries in place, or that, said, Hey, I, I maxed out.
10:43 I need help.
10:44 And that wasn't modeled for a lot of people.
10:46 So either they don't know how to do it or they don't even know that they can.
10:51 Can I just ask like what your base clientele like ages because I'm, yeah, why don't you tell me that first?
10:58 , yeah, so it ranges generally from, I, I would say 30 to 50 is, is kind of that, that range.
11:07 most of my clients, are, are married, they work outside the home, they have some adult experience.
11:14 I've also worked, you know, with college students.
11:17 that's a little bit different conversation, but I would say that the majority of them.
11:20 , many have children of varying ages because with kids, every life stage is, is a little bit different.
11:30 so a lot of times it's women who are in a transition.
11:34 Maybe it's, having children or the kids are off to school, or the empty nester, but they're some sort of transition, right?
11:43 That is like, Wow, I, I need to shift things and I'm not sure how to do that.
11:50 Yeah, I guess I was asking because you were talking about like the traditional family roles and everything.
11:55 I was like, that feels like such an antiquated idea to me.
11:59 You know, to me, I'm like, I was so I was wondering if you worked with a lot of older women because to me, I'm like, this new generation just feels very different.
12:07 Like, I don't, I don't know a single one of my friends and I'm, I'm 38, like all my friends have are in their 30s or 40s.
12:15 I don't know a single friend who the woman takes care of all the household stuff, or that all the all the childcare stuff, I like everything is so divided and like shared, but it's not the right word, shared.
12:28 And I also know so many strong women leaders.
12:31 Yeah.
12:31 And some of that, right, who you surround yourself with and I'm I'm older, so I'm, I'm 47.
12:38 And I think I would say too, like, I am a stronger person.
12:44 I am more detail oriented than, well, my, my co-parent or an ex-husband at this time.
12:50 So, naturally, I took on some of those tasks that, he was.
12:58 More than ready to just say no.
13:00 And we just got really unbalanced and then didn't have the communication skills, probably to rebalance some of that in, in addition to, to other things.
13:10 So I, I think it, again, there, there's just so So many variations of that.
13:20 Sometimes it's age, sometimes it's just the, the demographics of, or the culture in which you were raised and what, what you saw.
13:31 and I would say, by and large, most of the women, I'm in the Midwest.
13:36 Most of the women I know would say, we share, but it could, it could be a lot better.
13:43 And so, You know, I think it's wonderful for you that, you know, that is not so much your experience and that's really, I think what a lot of people are working towards.
13:55 Yeah, I think, I think you had a good point.
13:57 It's about who you're surround yourself with, right?
13:59 Because, I mean, I'm so picky about who I surround myself with, right, because you know that old adage, it's like, you are the the results of the five people you surround yourself with the most, right?
14:11 Because your peer group influences you and we tend to gravitate towards like-minded people.
14:16 So if you're purposely putting yourself in a situation around other high achievers, versus maybe, you know, maybe not, right?
14:25 Yeah, no, it's an interesting, interesting conversation just to have in general.
14:30 Like, it makes me think, so my husband works in the video game industry, he works for this amazing woman CEO.
14:37 She is like a powerhouse, she is a badass, like, she has started and sold so many companies, she's worth millions, she's awesome.
14:44 And she often gets these questions from people like maybe like reporters or something like, what do you have to say, or do you have any advice for like women trying to break into the marketplace?
14:55 And she's like, don't suck.
14:58 That's her answer all the time.
14:59 She's like, just, just work and be good and like, why does it have to be like the woman and a woman in the workforce or a woman CEO or woman leader like.
15:10 It's no different, right?
15:12 Just be good at what you do, right?
15:15 So I don't know, I love that.
15:17 So, OK, cool.
15:19 I just, I, it's just so fascinating to talk about that, right?
15:24 And it's, it's interesting to talk about like why.
15:28 Like the psychology behind all of this, right?
15:30 So like, I guess also like, what's the psychology behind people pleasing, right?
15:35 Why do you, why do women tend to people please more?
15:38 Yes.
15:38 And so a lot of times people are looking for validation, acceptance, approval, and again, so much of that does go back to your childhood and your upbringing.
15:51 So if you were a person who, you know, not, it's the very rare child that is gonna have 100% of their needs met all of the time.
16:03 There's, you know, parents are humans and they're imperfect.
16:06 So, it, it's, it can be somebody who, needs additional approval.
16:12 It may be that parents, only gave it in certain aspects, so they didn't feel as seen and heard, maybe as other cases.
16:21 For me, I grew up with a chronically ill younger sibling, and, who was in and out of the hospital.
16:30 My mom lots of times would stay for a month at a time with him at the hospital.
16:35 And my dad was working full time.
16:37 So, my parents didn't do anything wrong, so to speak.
16:42 I Just, and, and of course, I didn't figure this out until I was in adulthood, but I didn't feel seen and heard as much.
16:50 So then I became, I need to have straight A's.
16:53 Whatever activities and sports that I did, I needed to do the best.
16:57 And I was really hard on myself because it felt like sometimes the only time I was getting Recognition at, at all was from external kinds of things.
17:08 So it can be very individualized on where that comes from, but ultimately, it's, you know, approval and, and validation.
17:18 And if that Especially from parents, and even as you go into adulthood and that relationship changes with your parents, it might be harder to say no, cause they're always gonna see you as this child and you're still seeing them in a different role.
17:33 So having hard conversations, it's like, oh, you know, I just don't want to go there.
17:38 It's easier if I don't have the conversation at all.
17:41 And so,, that, that people pleasing often, it just comes from wanting to make other people happy and or validation, acceptance, and approval.
17:56 Yeah, that totally makes sense, and thank you for sharing your own journey because, you know, so often we're like, oh, it was an abusive household or it was something like that and there's just A million different experiences that people can have on planet Earth, right, more than a million, unlimited.
18:13 So, and, and, you know, psychology is so complex, right?
18:18 It's not necessarily you can point to one thing, and especially kids under the age of 7 are just that that's like when our personalities develop, when our lens develops, you know, So these, these women that you work with who are people pleasers, are they aware of this, or is it something that kind of like gets teased out as they're talking to you?
18:39 Most of the time by the when they come to me, they have recognized it, and it shows up like, feeling resentful often that it has gone on for so long, maybe it's with their their partner and just feeling that, you know, I, my voice isn't heard in a certain aspect.
19:01 It could be at work, or, or different places, but there is, resentment and anger that has built up.
19:08 And I think sometimes people pleasing.
19:12 Where people don't realize it, is they think they're just being nice.
19:16 And, you hear all these cliche things, you know, don't rock the boat or some of the, you know, or that, again, we're responsible for other people's feelings, and so we need to smooth things over.
19:27 And so there's this idea that people are just giving and giving and thinking that you're doing the right thing.
19:36 Which is often trying to manage somebody else's feelings or their experience, and So when people come to me, they don't realize so much that that's impossible.
19:47 That's part of, part of the coaching.
19:49 But they're like, I'm angry, I'm frustrated.
19:53 I feel like, you know, maybe my life is just like I'm on this hamster wheel that's just going, and I, I don't love it, but I don't hate it, and I just, I don't know how to change.
20:06 Yeah, I think learning that you are not responsible for other people's feelings is like one of the most important lessons in life, right?
20:13 Because we, we can't control how other people are going to react to us because everyone sees everything through their own filters, right?
20:22 Everything is so subjective.
20:24 So we're really only responsible for our own feelings, our own intentions, our own, reactions or responses to something.
20:33 And I think that's a really hard lesson for a lot of people to learn.
20:36 Yeah, and it's, it wasn't taught directly to, you know, probably anybody who was, you know, the millennial or or Gen X or older stages that, it was something we maybe had to figure out.
20:50 I mean, I grew up where people were, you know, don't make mom mad, or, oh, you made, Jenny sad, go apologize to her as if I was responsible for her feelings.
21:02 And so those kind of things again.
21:06 Whether it's your parenting or, or the circles that you're in.
21:09 So we grew up thinking, wow, I'm responsible for these other people's feelings.
21:14 So being able to even let go of that idea, was huge, and certainly a turning point for me and something that we talk about a lot in coaching.
21:27 , and we can anchor it again with what's really important to you.
21:32 And a lot of times people aren't sure cause nobody's really asked them in a while or they haven't had permission to just imagine, for a while.
21:42 Like, you've had goals and there comes kind of a point in your life, you know, with like, you're graduating from high school or maybe you're going to college and You know, you're on to the next relationship or you're, you know, buying a house or, you know, some of those more traditional kind of things.
21:55 And we're future focused for a long time.
21:59 And what happens to a lot of people is somewhere in there, it can be a little bit more stagnant and you're just more in the day to day grind versus a future focus.
22:08 And so that is part of that too.
22:11 And, it's like, things just get lost and you go on autopilot to what is, what is easy.
22:18 And that's trying to keep other people happy and not worrying as much about myself.
22:24 Totally.
22:25 I think, I think so many people get caught in that.
22:28 Right.
22:28 Like when I, in my own coaching practice, all, all I have to do is like walk them through exercises where they really do get to figure out what they want and help them decide what it is they want to figure out.
22:39 And it can just totally Energize someone to the, to the point where they then can just take off and go, right?
22:45 It's like sometimes they just need that North Star and they don't even know what it is.
22:49 And I like, I like what you're saying, like, a lot of this comes down to like unlearning all of these patterns, right?
22:54 Like so much of personal growth is unlearning, not necessarily learning.
22:59 So, do you find that a lot of people don't make decisions that align with their own values?
23:05 When they're in this kind of autopilot state, yes.
23:09 And again, it's something that we weren't directly taught in a lot of cases, or feel like it's almost like I need permission to do this for some reason.
23:23 And so, you know, my theory really is, if you identify what you value, and then you live your life and you make decisions, and you take actions from those values and the priorities, you create a life that's valuable to you, one that you enjoy, one that you want, one that makes you feel good.
23:40 And so, That's where we really just want to say, when you make decisions, and, and a lot of my clients, they're stuck in their head.
23:52 They're overthinkers.
23:53 And, whether that's trying to keep other people happy or afraid of making mistakes.
23:59 But they're, they're thinking too much and it's like, no, like, what's important?
24:03 What is, what is your North Star?
24:05 What is your anchor?
24:06 Whatever analogy you want to use.
24:08 And that can help you make those decisions with a lot more ease and less guilt, and feeling more confident as a whole when you are, you actually have a process.
24:24 Yeah, yeah, I really like that, that idea of like listing out your core values, and then for every decision, you have something to measure against.
24:32 It's so much easier to say yes or no that way, right?
24:34 Because you're like, does this align with who I am as a person, and then also those future dreams of like what I want.
24:42 Yeah, no, that totally makes sense.
24:43 I like that a lot.
24:47 So I know you mentioned to like, a lot of your clients are people who are really hard on themselves and, you know, there's, there's, there's positive and negative to everything, right?
24:55 There's, there's good things about being hard on yourself, right?
24:57 You're going to drive, you're going to be a high achiever, but there's that negative side too.
25:01 So how do people unlearn how to not be hard on themselves because that that almost feels like something that's like hardwired into those type A personalities, right?
25:09 Well, and it certainly can be.
25:10 I always say that everything starts with awareness.
25:13 , because it's really hard to make any changes if you aren't aware of what it is.
25:18 And so, that first part when I'm talking with clients is to start noticing the internal dialogue that you have.
25:26 When you are feeling, stuck or down or frustrated, whatever is, is coming up for you, what is your brain telling you?
25:36 And to start being aware of that process.
25:39 And And for most of my clients, that tends to be more negative.
25:43 And our brain is skewed a little bit more negative, from biology.
25:47 So that's understandable.
25:48 But, you know, it's almost the, mean in a lot of cases that you wouldn't actually say this out loud to anyone that you cared about.
26:00 And if that is what your internal dialogue is, one, we need to recognize that.
26:05 And, realize that that is just not helpful.
26:09 For most people, if it's putting you down to that extent.
26:14 , you're not, it makes it hard to achieve goals.
26:18 There are some people who, that can lead to some motivation, but I will often say, if you have a boss who was telling you that you are, you know, dumb and not good enough, and that doesn't look good, and, everybody else is doing it better.
26:36 At some point, Your drive to succeed.
26:42 Just withers up for for most people.
26:45 There, there isn't that desire to to keep working.
26:50 And so if that's your internal thing and you're thinking, oh, this keeps me going.
26:57 And what we often find is you've kept going despite how hard you are on yourself, not because you are so hard on yourself.
27:06 And imagine what you could do if you had somebody who was saying, Great work.
27:12 And, you know, that you did that really well today and, you know, was somewhat more positive.
27:20 It doesn't have to be even a complete cheerleader, but just not a negative.
27:24 And so we start noticing what that, that chatter looks like.
27:30 and then That's where some of the mindset work that we do comes in and changing, starting to change some of those thoughts that are deeply ingrained about themselves.
27:42 Yeah, I appreciate all that.
27:43 I guess, I guess when I was thinking about it, I was having a different different definition of being hard on yourself.
27:49 I was thinking like detail oriented.
27:52 what you said, that's real though, like that, that is super sad.
27:58 And it's true, like psychologists estimate 90% of our thoughts are negative and repetitive.
28:02 And like you said, it's biology, it's, it's a survival mechanism, right?
28:06 We were wired, we're wired to look for the danger, right?
28:10 So it makes sense.
28:11 , yeah, you know.
28:15 It it's so interesting how some people talk to themselves and I used to talk to myself that way too, and it took a lot of work, but sometimes we forget, right?
28:25 So just a personal story, I had hired a nanny and She, she had this like, internal dialogue that she said out loud.
28:37 So it was just a stream of consciousness.
28:38 So I always knew what she was thinking.
28:41 And she was more hard on herself than anyone I'd ever met.
28:44 If I, if she just did something wrong and I was like, Oh, hey, let me like show you how to do this a different way, she'd be like, super cool about it.
28:50 And then I'd walk out of the room.
28:52 And I'd hear you go, Oh, you're such an idiot.
28:54 God, you're so stupid.
28:55 You're totally going to get fired.
28:56 And it was like, oh my God, it was like heartbreaking.
28:59 Like something like that comes from like trauma, right?
29:02 Like someone external saying that to you.
29:04 It can, sometimes it can be from, that at some point that was motivating, like to have somebody who is better than you or ahead of you in whatever endeavor you're looking for.
29:20 Sometimes it can be that people have adopted that to be Motivating or for, you know, to help with determination, and it just went wrong somewhere.
29:30 It can also be, again, from perfectionism, lots of times that, yes, it's very much a coping skill or, a, you know, tra traumatic, response in terms of being Felt like I'm, I'm less than and not good enough and that the, the perfectionistic side of things, yeah, that, that's a whole another conversation and, and how that can, can look with Not feeling good enough.
30:03 And again, being like, like, that really detail-oriented, like, no matter, it's never quite good enough.
30:09 asking other people for their opinions, kind of crowdsourcing opinions, rereading emails, you know, 9 times before you send it because I, you know, I didn't quite get it right.
30:21 So those, those are some other skills that, yes, can also be hard on yourself in that way too.
30:29 Yeah, yeah, totally.
30:31 OK, so you said the first step is kind of becoming aware, kind of noticing that you have this internal dialogue, and then how do you start to change someone's internal dialogue like that?
30:42 Right?
30:42 So we'll start very small and one step at a time.
30:47 So taking, if, if there's a thought that is, not, not serving you that, you know, maybe it's just, I'm never good enough or whatever I do, it's not enough.
31:03 There's a lot of enough kind kinds of things that will come in there and we, we break it apart in terms of Is this really true?
31:13 because chances are there are going to be instances in your life that that isn't true, and you've just Forgotten about them or you're not focusing on them.
31:22 So there is a little bit of logic in, in the sense of taking a look, is this really true?
31:28 And, and, you know, and I'll also express it as what else is true here.
31:33 and, and at some point then It kind of becomes a a choice.
31:37 Like, are you willing to believe that sometimes This isn't good instead of, it's never, you know, it's never good enough.
31:47 and we just start making little steps to change that thought so that when they're noticing it, you can redirect it and to subtly, make it better.
31:59 Some people can do a big jump at once, and, once they see like, oh, that's not really true, you know, and it's just gone.
32:08 , others, it, if it's a deeply ingrained thought that you've held on to for a really long time, then, you know, it, it takes little, little steps.
32:20 I was, when I was first divorced and going through that process, I felt like just an absolute failure.
32:28 Like this, I, I failed my kids, I failed myself.
32:32 and that was just the overlying, Talk in my brain for a long time.
32:41 And I had to let go and examine a lot of little thoughts that led to that.
32:45 Like, why do I think, you know, getting, you know, getting divorced versus being married.
32:50 So sometimes we have to kind of dig a little bit deeper with what that, what that means.
32:56 But then slowly being able to, you know, redirect when I would catch myself thinking that, that I can redirect it.
33:02 , and being able to incrementally make changes, so that.
33:10 The, I, I was more conscious when I, with the talk that was going through my brain.
33:17 And, and I didn't have to listen to everything that came up.
33:21 Like, just because a thought goes through my brain, I don't have to believe that's true about me either.
33:26 And so that was another, just kind of important point, like, cause it enters my brain, does not mean it's true about me, and definitely not all the time.
33:35 So it's unlearning, right?
33:38 so many of those pieces, but, changing your beliefs has, has, has a process to it, and it might be, like I said, for some people, it can happen in the course of the conversation, and others were slowly pivoting over a matter of weeks to, maybe even months to really kind of shift the line of your thinking.
34:01 Yeah, it's funny that you, you said that so while you were talking, I wrote down thoughts aren't true, and then you said it and it's, that's like such a mind blowing thing for a lot of people like, just because you have a thought doesn't mean it's true.
34:15 Right, I say this in my book that and by the way, this is a lot of what I write about in my book too, but I said in my book, like, if you look up the definition of belief, or you look up belief in the thesaurus, one of the antonyms for it is truth.
34:32 Like the opposite of belief is truth, because your beliefs are just made up of your opinions or the opinions of others that you've adopted and opinions aren't founded in truth.
34:41 So you can even go so far as to say like your beliefs are lies that you tell yourself and then you completely build your life around these lies, which is, which is why I love your process of, you know, value based decision making, like, instead of going with this old belief, let's talk about like what you hold important.
35:00 Mhm.
35:01 That's such a great way to kind of like undo everything and like kind of untangle that.
35:05 Yeah.
35:06 OK, so you also, you also mentioned.
35:10 You mentioned guilt without saying the word guilt, that, you know, you blamed yourself for so much of that.
35:16 And like, I like to say guilt is punishing yourself before anyone else has a chance to, right?
35:20 Like, like we're growing up, it's like we think we're going to get in trouble from our parents or our teachers with the law or God or whoever, but guilt is a, is a hard one to overcome.
35:32 So talk to me about how do people let go of guilt?
35:36 Right.
35:36 , and again, a lot of that is a process, and we have to look at what's underneath it.
35:42 Where is this coming from?
35:43 And a lot of times it's gonna be with beliefs that are deeply held, deeply felt, probably more than one of them.
35:51 For me, you know, it was partly religion, part of my own beliefs and, you know, being, that, that kids needed to, you know, healthy parents in, in a household.
36:06 , you know, and some of my guilt as, as I unwound that, again, multifaceted, in part, I was trying to take the higher road, not blaming my, husband, ex-husband at the time.
36:22 And so it in my mind then, it had to be somebody's fault, and then it was mine.
36:26 So if it wasn't his fault, then it was my fault.
36:29 And so I had to unwind some of that again like, why does it have to be anybody's fault?
36:36 And so pulling, pulling that apart and then Also, you know, some of it, it just, it takes time, when something like that that's really emotional and, and a lot of things going on, I think it does take some time and perspective, in cases to be able to release that.
36:56 But it was a lot of work to let go of some of those beliefs, about family, about marriage, about myself, and that.
37:10 , ultimately it came down to when I looked at how I behaved.
37:16 When guilt was prevalent, that wasn't how I wanted to show up in the world.
37:21 And so it was, you know, put, just bringing myself smaller, the, the whole blame game sort of thing.
37:31 It's like, this isn't how I wanna live.
37:34 And so for me, it's like, I don't, I don't like feeling that.
37:38 , and I, you know, that was part of going into my body and like, what is, what is this doing?
37:44 Where, where does guilt feel?
37:45 And it, you know, blocks my throat and it feels tight in my chest.
37:49 And, it was that I just don't want to stay here.
37:55 And so that was part of my process.
37:58 but, and I'll also work with clients through that too, like, physiologically, what does this emotion feel like for you?
38:06 And Is that something you want to feel more of, or how can we look at releasing some of this, you know, so that you can actually feel something different.
38:19 I really appreciate everything you said, and I appreciate that process of of feeling it in your body and and especially where it's like, A lot of times you just get to that point, like you said, like, I literally can't be here anymore.
38:32 Like, I feel like I'm gonna die if I stay here.
38:35 And like you were saying like, you didn't like how you behaved when you felt guilty.
38:40 Also like what it does to your body, right?
38:43 It, it can cause illness, right?
38:45 Hanging holding on to anything like anger or rage or guilt or sadness or shame like that turns into disease.
38:52 Yes.
38:54 So, so yeah, I think, I think you're totally right that like a lot of people get to that point where you're, they're like, something has to give.
39:03 And and the people who don't get to that point, you know, unfortunately, sometimes illness happens and then that gets them to that point.
39:10 Right.
39:11 Mhm.
39:13 Yeah.
39:14 And that's for, for me with, you know, in some cases, I have clients who, you know, we can identify the, the thought that isn't working for them.
39:25 Sometimes we start with the feeling, and You know, where, what is this doing and what, and then we backtrack and say, you know, what are you thinking that is creating some of this.
39:38 And so, again, with just how interconnected that is, for a lot of people that's, not something they're aware of.
39:48 And, being able to link that.
39:52 And I know that anger for me was another one.
39:54 Like, I don't like feeling this way.
39:57 You know, I, I did have a lot of anger, just part of the grief process with other things.
40:02 And it's like, I, I don't wanna stay here.
40:06 So the, then I have to think differently to be able to feel differently.
40:11 And again, getting to that point.
40:14 So, you know, it's interesting how How people come to try and make that change, but, you know, whether it's more the the thinking or the feelings, but they're usually pretty intertwined.
40:27 Yeah, totally, and it makes sense that like some people need to go in through the emotion.
40:33 Because it's, it's, it's like if you're not used to watching your thoughts and being conscious, and being mindful, like you have no idea what's going on in there.
40:43 It's just overrun with this, this voice and you're like, who is this voice?
40:47 Is that me?
40:48 No, that's not me.
40:49 That's like this program running, right?
40:53 but yeah, your thoughts create emotions and then your emotions create those same kind of thoughts and you just get stuck in this infinite loop unless you break it.
41:02 Yeah, I know, I'm I'm loving this conversation because it's just not only is it so relatable, but it's just it's so fascinating how our brain works, right?
41:16 And and guilt especially is so fascinating because it's like, something's totally not your fault, right?
41:22 Like I was, I was sexually abused by a family member and like guilt was the primary emotion that I felt for years and years and years.
41:28 It's like, that's not your anyone objectively can say that.
41:31 I can I could objectively probably say it, but and you with your, with your husband, but it's like something in us, like you said, you didn't, maybe it's because like you said, you didn't want to blame someone else, so you had to turn that blame on yourself.
41:45 It's really It's really interesting how it works.
41:49 So another thing I want to talk to you about is boundaries.
41:53 that's, that's a really big one.
41:54 So just talk to me a little bit about boundaries.
41:56 What do you see with your clients as far as boundaries?
41:58 Yeah.
42:00 I'll, I'll start by saying what I think of as boundaries, I I like to use this description is, it's like a fence, like if you were fencing in your yard, for example.
42:12 And so you are able to have, you keep what you want within there.
42:18 Most of the time there's a gate, you can, you know, allow people to come and go as you choose, but you can also put that gate up and, you know, That, that is kind of your barrier.
42:27 And most people understand that they're not just gonna come, I'm not gonna have a party on somebody else's property, right?
42:33 That, that would be, I think, I think it'd be weird.
42:38 It would be awkward.
42:39 And so, you know, people can understand that.
42:43 And all of your finance.
42:45 Resources, your time, your energy, your finances, you, you know, all of that, you can have boundaries around that as well too.
42:53 And to protect yourself and decide what you're going to give to other people and what you are going to, you know, which people you want to allow into those spaces.
43:06 And again, kind of, you know, those core priorities.
43:09 Like for me, it's, being, my family is part of that.
43:13 My health as a, as a whole is part of that.
43:17 and growing and learning are kind of like my big three.
43:21 And notice work, for the most part, is not in there.
43:26 And so I'm really good with my time boundaries, especially that You know, and I, I'm a single parent.
43:37 There's only one of me.
43:38 I want, I want quality time with my kids, whether it's running around or, or spending time with them.
43:44 And so I can say no pretty easily and set up my calendar as such that when I'm done, I'm done.
43:53 On a day off, I do not look at my notifications are turned off, because for me, it's just not a priority.
44:02 , that work is important and, you know, clients and the things that I'm doing are important.
44:11 but my family to me is more important.
44:14 So it was really easy to set some of those, those boundaries, and I don't feel guilty about it.
44:21 and other people may not agree, and that's OK, but this is what is really important for me.
44:28 So,, again, kind of going back to those, and so when you're able to set a boundary of That if you're gonna talk to me that way.
44:39 I'm, I'm gonna leave, or I'm gonna hang up if, if it's a conversation.
44:43 Because you've decided that this, you know, relationship or whatever it, it is, or how I feel is more important.
44:54 And, you know, the thing with boundaries, a lot of times people want other people to change.
45:00 Like, you can't do that.
45:03 you can't talk to me that way, or, stop asking me to do that.
45:07 And unfortunately, we can't control what other people do.
45:11 and maybe it's not unfortunately, but we don't get to control what other people do.
45:14 So the boundary is about you and what you're gonna do.
45:17 And so it's, here's, here's what I'm willing to do, and I will have a conversation as long as this, this and this, you know, happens and we don't discuss these things.
45:31 That's what you can enforce all on your own.
45:33 I'm gonna have this conversation or not.
45:34 , and so I think that's often a misconception with boundaries as we want to make other people change, cause then it's easier for us.
45:43 We don't have to do as much of that internal work.
45:46 but most of the time that doesn't work.
45:48 And so it's determining what you're going to allow in, into your time and your space and your energy.
45:57 I really like that definition a lot and I really like that last part where you were talking about, you can't control other people and so often with boundaries, people think that it's about changing someone else, and it's really about keeping like your safe space.
46:14 And I, I appreciate that because at first when you were talking about it, it's like, OK, I can control my calendar or something and it's like, or I know what's important versus like work versus family and it's like.
46:26 Yes, everyone, I feel like everyone can like jump on board with that, but sometimes things that aren't boundary or sometimes things that don't appear to be boundaries are boundaries.
46:36 And that's where it gets a little bit trickier.
46:38 And I really like that you went there, like, just a really fast personal example.
46:42 I, I was a target of cancel culture once, and all these members of this community that I was a part of were spreading lies about me on social media.
46:51 And I went to like 3 different, literally 3 different therapists because I was just so messed up from this.
46:56 And they were like, this is a lesson in boundaries.
46:59 Those people that were in that community didn't set proper boundaries for themselves when they were in there.
47:04 So they're projecting things onto you.
47:07 And you're not setting proper boundaries now because you're taking it personally.
47:11 And it was like, holy shit, like this crazy aha moment where it's like, sometimes a boundary looks like you not, not letting.
47:21 The negativity in or the you're not taking something personally.
47:26 And that's a much harder boundary to like imagine.
47:30 And, and even to, reduce people pleasing behaviors or actions really is a boundary because you're setting a boundary with, I'm not responsible for your feelings.
47:41 Like, I'm not gonna take this personally.
47:43 And, you know, or, you may not like that, and I'm OK with that because this is what I need.
47:50 So that really is a, it's a personal boundary in order to stop some of those behaviors as well, because you're setting a limit for yourself.
47:59 And here's what I'm willing to do, and here's what I'm not willing to do anymore.
48:03 Yeah, I love that you just brought it back around.
48:05 That's so true.
48:07 And, and those kind of boundaries are uncomfortable, right?
48:11 And I think it's part of it is you just have to get comfortable with being uncomfortable and know that like on the other side of that is your peace of mind and happiness.
48:21 Yes, so it discomfort is the, the price of life, right?
48:25 that you being uncomfortable and I don't know anybody who really likes being uncomfortable, but when we learn how to move through it and accept it.
48:37 Instead of resist it is really, I, I think when your life can expand, and that you're open to more possibilities and more feelings because you're not using so much, you know, energy and emotion to just try and stop.
48:53 Being uncomfortable because, man, that's gonna happen whether you want it to or not.
48:59 Yeah, totally.
49:00 And it's like outside of your comfort zone where growth happens, right?
49:03 And, and like it, I love that you just said it's going to happen whether you like it to or not.
49:07 And that's kind of what we were talking about before where, you know, you have the opportunity to change and you could change now or you can wait till Things totally fall apart to change, right?
49:19 and that choice is yours.
49:20 And you know, I know we're kind of running out of time, but I just really want to touch on the not taking things personally, even though that wasn't something on our list, like, what are your thoughts on that?
49:28 Like, because I feel like that's That's such a big lesson for a lot of people.
49:35 It is.
49:35 It is definitely a mindset shift that you have to be willing to believe, right?
49:41 I, I mean, as we were talking about changing beliefs, if you believe that you are res what I do, you know, makes you feel a certain way, that, that's a mindset set shift that will need to change in order to not take it personally.
49:56 I know that, you know, I have two teenagers right now and, we've worked really hard on them being able to express their emotions because a lot of times they don't get to do that.
50:10 They don't get to do that at dad's house.
50:12 They don't get to do that at school.
50:14 And so we were recently just traveling, you know, tensions were high, they were frustrated and people looking at it were, I, I don't know what they were thinking.
50:25 you know, but I, I was getting the look and, you know, some, some.
50:29 Stomping feet and, and loud voices.
50:31 And I literally was just like, Oh, they're feeling frustrated.
50:35 And it did not faze me at all.
50:38 And I, we were walking around a lake, I'm like looking at the little ducks and, you know, like they will move through their frustration.
50:46 And when I've had that conversation or other people have experienced it, they're like, Well, you know, like I, I'm supposed to fix that for them, and it, but I, I can't, like those are their feelings and their emotions.
50:59 And so part of that again is just that mindset shift of Learning, I'm responsible for my emotions, and, and that's a big job.
51:09 Like, you know, that's, that's, that's a big job to, I don't need to take on other people's emotions, so I let them have theirs and have mine.
51:19 And so I just, I am able to do that.
51:22 Does that mean that sometimes my feelings still get hurt?
51:24 Yes.
51:26 and, and those kind of things.
51:27 It doesn't mean that you're a robot.
51:29 , but recognizing that how people are acting, what they're saying.
51:35 It is from them.
51:36 It's their experience, their perspective, their beliefs, whatever that is creating that for them, it's really not about you.
51:45 Yeah, beautifully sad.
51:47 I love it, Yeah, and at some extent, on some level, they're choosing to feel frustrated, probably not consciously, because like you said, it it goes through all of those layers, But yeah, yeah, totally.
52:03 So it's like anything else, so many of these are are skills that the more you practice, the more natural that it feels, the, the stronger that it is that you can move on to the next level and So it's kind of part of that growth process and, willing to try new things, willing to try thinking and experiencing new things.
52:27 but for me, like I said, expansion is just the word that always comes to mind because I felt so small when I was locked into.
52:35 , what everybody else wanted, but what I didn't know that I wanted, you know, trying to push away feelings, all these things.
52:42 And when I was able to release some of those, it's just the, the world got bigger.
52:49 My emotions, were, you know, more than I could experience more joy and more calmness and more of the good stuff as well.
53:01 and so I think that's Just what makes this work so profound and so worthwhile is just to be able to have bigger and better experiences.
53:12 Yeah, totally.
53:14 OK, so if there's any human beings listening that have experienced any of these things we've talked about because they're just, they're so universal.
53:22 It's the human experience.
53:23 It really is.
53:24 Yeah.
53:26 and they want to work with you, where can they find you?
53:29 What do you offer?
53:29 Where can they get in touch?
53:31 Yes, absolutely.
53:32 my website is coach with Kristen.com.
53:36 And I also have a weekly podcast called Stop Overthinking.
53:41 So a lot of it is the mindset work of various things that we have talked about.
53:45 So you can find that on, it's, it's an audio podcast, so wherever you can get the, the audio podcast, and social media.
53:55 I'm Kristen Nodega coaching.
53:56 , so you can, and, and all of that is also linked on the website.
54:02 So I do one on one coaching with clients and, it's all virtual, so it doesn't matter where, where you live or where you're located.
54:12 we can, we can work together and usually with a package of sessions so that we can really see, some progress, but all consults are free and I'd love to have you.
54:24 , check out my podcast or, give me a follow, and I, I love talking with people too if you have any feedback, I'd love to hear it.
54:33 Thank you so much.
54:34 And just a little note, Kristen's podcast is amazing, so definitely go listen to it.
54:40 yeah, absolutely.
54:41 Thank you so much for coming on.
54:42 This was such a great conversation and it's so important.
54:46 , just, yeah, like we've been saying, it's so universal, and I think there's so many people who were in that place that you were describing, you were in that that are like, OK, which way is up?
54:59 Like, how do I even make the first move?
55:02 I know I want to change, but like what's the first step here?
55:04 So.
55:05 , yeah, I just appreciate you and your time, so thank you so much.
55:09 And yeah, and if you are listening, please like, share, comment, subscribe, send this to someone who you think could use it, and I'll see you all next week.
55:17 Have a beautiful rest of your day.
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