0:00 Hi, everyone.
0:01 Welcome back to the Change Your Mind podcast.
0:03 I'm your host, Kris Ashley.
0:05 As always, we explore personal development, spirituality and science.
0:09 We're going to go heavy into personal development today with a topic that's really important, how do you create and sustain healthy relationships within your family.
0:19 So if you're like cringing right now, thinking, oh, I have that one family member that's a little hard to get along with, we have an expert coming on soon.
0:27 OK, so a couple of quick announcements.
0:29 if you head over to the link in the show notes, you will find a link to my book, Change Your Mind to Change Your Reality.
0:35 You will also find links to my free masterclass and free downloads, my course, lots of goodies, you'll find Guest links as well.
0:44 And as always, this podcast is part of the Los Angeles Tribune podcast network.
0:49 We do a lot in personal development.
0:50 We have some amazing events coming up.
0:52 So please keep in touch, join us and yeah, we've got a lot coming your way.
0:58 Hi, I'm Kris.
1:00 When I was younger, I went through trauma that caused me to feel broken and lost.
1:04 But my life changed after I had a spiritual awakening.
1:08 Since then, I've dedicated my life to studying and learning from masters all around the world that have helped me to create a life of fulfillment and abundance beyond my wildest dreams.
1:17 Now I'm dedicated to sharing everything I've learned so that you don't have to suffer for decades like I did.
1:23 I've seen people's lives completely transformed, and I share it all right here.
1:30 OK, so with me today, I have Doctor Drevon James, and Dr.
1:35 James is a transformation specialist, inspirational speaker, radio host, life coach, and author of Freedom Is Your Birthright.
1:44 She's the founder of the Next Step Leadership Academy and Everyday Peace, a platform for her to help and inspire others to build the life of their dreams.
1:53 She also hosts her own weekly radio radio show, Dr.
1:56 Drevon James Everyday Peace on Mind Body Spirit FM.
2:00 Welcome.
2:01 I'm so happy you're here.
2:04 Thank you.
2:05 I'm excited to be with you today.
2:08 Yeah, I'm excited too.
2:09 I'm excited to get into the family conversation.
2:13 so I always start my shows the same way.
2:16 And that is by asking my guests what their origin story is.
2:19 So if you wouldn't mind sharing, what is your story that led you to be this specialist in family relationships?
2:28 Well, I thank you for that question first of all, and, and it makes me smile because, I have always been family oriented.
2:37 So relationships have always been important to me, although not always easy, right?
2:43 And so I say that I got here through.
2:45 Trial and tribulation.
2:47 I'm I'm the mom of two young adults, divorced after 27 years of marriage, so who, right, the oldest of three, children, well I had 3 children, and, relationships have been, My rock and my foundation.
3:05 So over the years through trial and tribulations, empty nesting and, you know, all of that going through life's expected and unexpected changes, I, I arrived at through a lot of self-help and, you know, all along through this, I've always been teaching and Just taking that stuff in and growing and learning myself and practice, practice, practice, practice, practice.
3:26 That's how you get to where you wanna be and you never really arrive.
3:29 It's all, it's just a journey, but it can be very, very pleasant even when things happen that seem to be quite unpleasant.
3:36 Yeah, absolutely.
3:38 And, you know, what is it that even sent you down the self-help path in the first place, because I know you're a coach as well.
3:45 Yes, so, I guess start at the very beginning.
3:49 So I had just graduated from high school.
3:51 I was 17 years old, heading off to pharmacy school.
3:54 I have my doctorate degree in pharmacy, and that summer after I graduated from high school, my brother, who's a year younger than me, gave me a book, The Power of Positive Thinking by Norman Vincent Peale.
4:05 It's a tiny little book.
4:06 Most people know it.
4:07 I do not know what happened when I read that book the first time.
4:11 I was, it's like a switch turned inside of me and I knew that when I was on the right journey that I wanted to help people.
4:18 I was going to healthcare to help people, but the way I wanted to help them changed.
4:23 It was I at the time.
4:24 I didn't even know that the term motivational speaker or I've never heard that term before.
4:29 The closest I'd ever come to that, you know, to feeling what I thought was, you know, in the ministry or something, but I didn't know what it was that I wanted to do for people, but I knew that after reading that book, The Power of Positive Thinking by Norman Vincent Peale, that what he did for me in that book was something akin to, I guess, transformation.
4:49 You could say that he, he allowed me to know that if it Whatever heights I desired in life, whatever piece I was seeking, it was all within me.
4:58 I just had to tap into it.
4:59 I wanted to be able to give that gift to other people.
5:02 So that's how it all started for me, you know, you'll you'll laugh when I tell you this.
5:06 When I read that book the first time, and I must have read it, I kid you not, over 20 times before I left for college in in late August.
5:14 Yeah.
5:15 What I thought I had discovered.
5:18 Was the answer to how to never have a problem as long as I lived.
5:23 I was 17.
5:25 So, and I would, I, I still have these journals say I was taking notes feverishly about everything I learned in that book and I was really, I thought I had like alchemy, you know, never have another problem, turn all these problems into successes.
5:37 Well, the latter part was true.
5:40 I learned that.
5:42 Anything that showed up in my life.
5:45 did not show up to destroy me, but showed up to help me as I consciously developed and moved to my next level of greatness.
5:52 So, that's where it all started for me, was reading that book and Just whatever that lock that it turned inside of me, I was fascinated and I went on this journey, a lifelong journey of reading self-help books, books on manifestation, books on peace, book on love, books on relationships, everything I put my hands on, and I eventually arrived at, oh, this is a foundation for peace.
6:18 And how I define peace through my many readings was peace is wholeness, completeness, nothing missing, nothing broken, totality.
6:26 That was significant for me because peace wasn't sitting in the corner, crisscross applesauce in the zin, right?
6:34 I wish that it were, but for me it meant that everything that showed up in my life.
6:39 Everything was part of my totality, and I could use it to achieve whatever I want to achieve in life.
6:44 So that's how I kind of got here.
6:46 It's been a lifelong journey of learning, and I'm still learning, still teaching, but it's been fascinating.
6:54 I love your story so much because I have this almost the same story.
6:59 When I was 17, someone handed me a book that changed my life and I went on this truth-seeking journey to read everything and anything I could get my hands on.
7:08 So you you're you're talking and like, oh, yes, I know that feeling.
7:12 , and I love how you describe peace.
7:16 That's really beautiful.
7:18 So how do we find peace within relationships and out in the world because it's easy to find peace when you're, you know, immersed in self-help books or, you know, on yoga retreats or whatever it is, but you know, we have to like go out there in the world and and deal with other people, right?
7:37 So how do we find that?
7:39 And that's the beauty of this too, right?
7:40 I always tell people you don't know if you've transformed if you're sitting in a test tube, right?
7:45 You've gotta be in in the situation and then you start using the techniques that you that you learn.
7:51 So when I coach people, I tell people my story was I had to get myself together in a carpool line, right?
7:57 Because when you make the little kids to come out of school and you feel like your whole world is falling apart, and you have to kind of gird yourself up and you go back to your practices.
8:04 And so I think the number one way to Practice what you're learning is to developing daily habits, right?
8:14 And habits are something that you can lean on, it's tangible, and if you don't wait till you get into a crisis to say, OK, now I'm gonna put this into practice, right?
8:23 You make it part of your your day to day practice.
8:26 One of them is listening, right?
8:28 A number one skill that a lot of us don't do, right?
8:33 We don't listen, it's not, it's not because we want to be rude, it's because we want to be prepared and we want to see.
8:38 , it's some kind of way, there's something going on in us that says, I'm engaged, if I can come back with a great answer really, really quickly.
8:47 So while the other person is talking, we're formulating, right?
8:50 We're thinking, OK, yeah, yeah, yeah, OK, yeah, yeah, yeah, and we're getting this response together, but there's something beautiful that happens in the gaps, right?
8:58 allows you just to breathe, to sin to yourself, right?
9:02 And even if something has happened in that exchange, which triggers you in a negative way, you have that moment of just breath and self-love and through that self-love, right, if you practice slowing down and listening through that self-love, we're able to give that love is it.
9:19 You can see how you could see it that way.
9:21 Something as simple as that, and practicing that ongoing and even if you can't necessarily in that moment really see how they could see it that way, right?
9:31 Just practicing that phrase.
9:34 I could see how you could see it that way, right?
9:37 Helps to improve relationships, helps to put the other person at ease.
9:40 That little gap says I'm listening.
9:43 I'm not here planning my attack.
9:45 So just habits, I think daily habits and learning little things that we that we put in our tool chests as we engage with other people.
9:55 I like that a lot and and.
9:58 I think also another way of saying exactly what you're saying is people want to feel seen and heard.
10:04 Right?
10:05 You know, I'm reading this book on NLP right now, and it's talking about, I think they actually say that phrase that you were saying in there, it's like, It's, it's coming at someone with empathy and being like before you even responding like.
10:20 Trying to see their point of view, right?
10:23 Yeah, it's so it's so good, just taking that moment to acknowledge that there's something that Maya Angelou said that people will remember, they may forget most of what you said, but they'll never forget how you made them feel, right?
10:38 And that's true of us think, you know, I think back, I just said that and and my teacher from first grade, Mrs.
10:45 Jones, I can remember how she made me feel one day.
10:50 like I was less thin.
10:51 I wasn't, I was different and and I can't remember the words that she said, but I remember that exchange that day, right?
11:01 And, you know, That's important, right?
11:04 And I know she didn't mean to do that, right?
11:07 I'm a little kid, I'm impressionable, but I try to remember that when I'm engaging with people and, and we mess up all of the time, right?
11:15 So another habit to have is I always, I always say the second touch, right, which is me going back and say, you know what, I think I didn't say that the way I meant to say it.
11:26 Right, I'm gonna, can I do over on that and being really, really comfortable with that and watching people like, oh, OK, that's OK, but this seeing their whole body language changes like, yeah, that didn't come out the way I, I want to say because we mess up, right?
11:40 we mess up a lot of times we're got 1000 things going through our head at any given time, so many things going on in our personal life and our health, everything, and in that moment.
11:52 I like to say I will we lose consciousness for a moment and we're just like, you know, an autopilot.
11:57 This is where practice and habits come into play cause sometimes when we can't necessarily pull it out of ourselves, the habit will just Kick in, right?
12:07 But when that doesn't happen, and it won't happen all the time, go back and get that second touch and say, you know what?
12:12 I think I said something wrong or it didn't come out the way I want to say it.
12:17 Can I get, can I say this again?
12:19 And people are usually willing, I said, oh, OK, so have that as a habit too.
12:23 We're not gonna be perfect in any of these relationships, and that's OK.
12:27 I like that a lot because, you know, I was thinking about like intention as you were talking about that.
12:33 And like you said, like, sometimes we're just busy, we have a million things on and we have really good intentions, but the way we're impacting someone might not be in alignment.
12:43 So, I, I think you can even come back and do that like days later, weeks later, months later, right?
12:49 It doesn't have to be immediate because sometimes I don't know, like sometimes you kind of pick up on it later, you're like, oh, that thing didn't go as I wanted to, right?
12:58 Yeah, just give me, you know, these things happen in my everyday life.
13:02 I'm at work today.
13:02 We have a new person I've never seen before walking around my department and I saw her at least 5 times from 7 o'clock in the morning, and each time I was engaged in something else, but she was near enough for me to stop.
13:15 And around 2:45, I stopped and I said, My name is Doctor such and such, and I'm so sorry.
13:22 I've seen you several times today and I've been otherwise engaged, you know, I'm glad you're here.
13:26 What's your name?
13:27 What's your role?
13:28 And you know, I could tell she's like, oh my gosh, she's acknowledging me, but so I felt like, you know, that was me going back and saying, hey, let me get a do-over on this.
13:36 I've seen you several times today and I haven't stopped for whatever reason to introduce myself and to greet you properly.
13:43 I've been here for several hours, you know, I, I apologize for that, but I'd love to.
13:47 Meet you and find out more about you.
13:49 And then I had another colleague which said something to me, maybe like a week ago.
13:53 She shared something with me and I immediately went into giving advice mode.
13:58 She didn't ask me for any advice.
14:01 She just wanted me to listen.
14:02 And so over the weekend, I thought about that and I text her and I said, Hey, I wanna say that I went straight into advice mode.
14:10 Please forgive me.
14:10 I hope I wasn't offensive.
14:12 And she texted me and I said, No, no, no, I needed that, but just As you said, it doesn't have to be immediately.
14:20 We all know we go back and replay things in our mind and for our own comfort.
14:25 This is selfish, but it's self love for our own comfort, to put our mind at ease.
14:29 Take that quick moment, reach out and see, I was thinking about this, and I hope I didn't do this.
14:34 I didn't mean to.
14:35 Get it off your mind, get it out in the open.
14:39 I, I'm just like so struck by your, your kindness and compassion, and it's just coming through in your stories and just have seen and I don't know, cared for that coworker must have felt when you went over and said, I've seen you so many times, but I, I want to meet you, right?
14:59 that's just such a, you must have made her feel so special.
15:02 And if we could all go through life like that, if we could all learn something from you, I think the world would be such a kinder place.
15:10 And it's interesting that you, you said you went into advice mode, which is totally something that we all do.
15:16 So how do you gauge it when you're, when, let's say someone comes to you complaining about something, you know, back to family, right?
15:23 That's what I'm thinking about.
15:25 How do you gauge like whether they want advice or they just want events or, you know?
15:31 You know, and also like, what's your take on like listening to someone vent because sometimes like all if someone's like constantly venting, it's just like a drain, right?
15:40 So like, how do you navigate?
15:41 I just threw like 5 questions at you, but I'm just so curious I love it because we're so vibing because I have young adults who recently, you know, got out of grad school in graduated from.
15:54 Undergrad soon and so it's perfect for me to talk about family because it's that fine line for moms, right?
16:01 Where you still want to be included, right?
16:03 And I think you wanna include me a little bit, I want to include the parents a little bit, but they really are not looking for your comments.
16:11 They're just kind of talking, right?
16:13 And it's great.
16:13 So I had to.
16:14 Learn this is to start off by saying, now, do you want me to listen, just listen, or do you want any advice from me?
16:20 And they'll tell me, asking the question, right, instead of trying to, because at first I was like trying to listen like oh that's, you know, and I go into mommy mode which is unsolicited advice, right, and realizing that you may not want my Years of wisdom.
16:36 You just want someone to be a kind listener to you without judgment, and I had to learn that because as a mother, as as a caregiver, you when your family and your colleagues are two different things, your family and your friends are two different things, and it's easy if we're not careful to cross those boundaries, where we get.
16:56 Into a place where we're giving this unsolicited advice and making them feel as though they're not an expert in their own lives.
17:03 So for me, what I have done and what I advise people to do is to ask, what do you hate?
17:08 What do you need in this moment?
17:09 You need just a kind ear to listen, or do you want me to listen and let you know what I think about it, and they will tell me.
17:16 So when my daughter will say, Mom.
17:19 You can talk now.
17:20 I would like to know your thoughts, right, but so that is, I said the the simplest thing is don't try to be a mind reader.
17:27 Really, the world's not asking us to do that, right?
17:30 And people appreciate when you ask.
17:32 And as far as people venting, we are all human and sometimes when people come.
17:36 A bit with you, you're already tinkering on the edge of can't take another thing yourself, right?
17:42 And so what I always tell people is like, you know, oh my gosh, I can see you're really upset.
17:46 I would love to listen.
17:48 This is what we're gonna do.
17:49 Let's sit for 5 minutes and then let's have 5 minutes of finding things that we're grateful for.
17:55 Right?
17:56 And I have one friend, not a family member, but a friend who said to me, the gratitude thing makes me nervous.
18:03 OK, so I, I could do the venting thing, right, but the gratitude thing makes me nervous.
18:10 I said, OK, well then don't you say anything that you're grateful for.
18:12 Would it be OK if I tell you some things that I find very, very powerful about you?
18:19 01 or two things, right?
18:22 And I find that sort of subsides the venting without me saying, hey, today has been a really hard day for me too, but just switching, allowing them that 5 minutes and say now I want to tell you something.
18:37 Right, and it's totally off subject, something that I see in their strengths, something that's authentically true about them that I've heard in their story when they're talking to me.
18:47 I find that it really changes the energy for them if you will.
18:52 They really start to stand their power and a lot of venting for all of us is fear based, right?
18:59 I'm afraid if this then that.
19:02 Hm.
19:03 Right.
19:03 If they don't respect me then I'm not valued.
19:06 It it's a hope it's all fear based, so when I can help them switch, you know, just a little bit.
19:12 To finding gratitude, which is so powerful and then feeling, oh my gosh, I, I, whether or not this situation ever changes, I am an amazing human being, so.
19:25 I just love that response.
19:26 And it, especially with your friend who was nervous, and you're like, well, let me point out things that are great about you that I see in you.
19:35 Like, I'm sure that made them feel so worthy and just, again, I keep saying seen and heard because that's just really how you're making people feel.
19:44 and how simple of an answer, just ask.
19:47 I love that, you know, sometimes we're, we don't even think the simplest answer, right?
19:52 So, yeah, OK, we want, we wanna, we want to seem like the expert, I think a lot of times it's OK not to be an expert.
19:59 Yeah, yeah, and I like that you said that they can be an expert in their own lives because we are all experts in our own lives and our own experience.
20:06 OK, so unrelated to all of this.
20:09 I'm a new mom.
20:10 What's your advice for do do I give my once my kids starts talking advice, or do I just hear him or what is, what is your, what's your magic recipe for little kids?
20:24 So, but if I had to do it all over again, the one thing that I think I would do differently is I would not be so much of a problem solver.
20:36 I was the type of mom who I let them vent, I let them talk, but I always try to lead them to the water and say, OK, here, here's here's what we're gonna do here, here's what we're gonna do there.
20:49 So I think I would have allowed for more failure.
20:51 .
20:53 Right.
20:54 And knowing what I know now, how, how bad could you have failed in the 3rd grade?
21:00 Really?
21:01 Yeah, but so I think I wouldn't have been so hypersensitive to walking them towards a solution.
21:07 I always made them participatory in the solution, but I really see in retrospect I was coaching all the way like this is the line of action, this is the line of action, and if I had to do it all over again, I would let them.
21:21 Feel more frequently, feel those failures, and feel the warmth, unconditional love.
21:28 I appreciate that advice.
21:30 I can't remember who it was, but I was listening to like a book or a podcast or something recently.
21:35 And every night around the dinner table, when this woman was growing up, her dad used to ask, OK, what's one way you failed today to all the kids to let them know that, right, it's like melts you to let them know that failure equals growth and they're not their failures and, you know, we, we can fail forward, right?
21:54 So I, yeah, failure is important.
21:57 Oh, it's so important, right?
21:58 Because that's, that's how we grow.
22:00 We don't really grow when we're on the mountain top and things are going great.
22:02 We're just like celebrating as we should.
22:05 But in those values we reflect to say if I had done this differently by next time I'll do this, and that's where all that growth comes from.
22:12 So yeah, that's the one major thing that I would have done differently.
22:16 Yeah, I appreciate that, thanks.
22:18 OK, so, Are there some tips that you have to create healthy family relationships, like some, some go to kind of hacks that you give your clients and that you like to teach people?
22:33 Yes, they are, and I get my little my little handy over here.
22:37 The first thing I want to say to people is that when you want to have a healthy relationship with anyone else, it starts with a healthy relationship with you.
22:45 Self awareness is key.
22:47 It's not cool.
22:48 I know you don't want to spend all that time on ourselves, but understanding what makes us tick, right?
22:55 Just without any judgment, just, oh, I see that makes me a little agitated.
23:00 I see that makes me feel overwhelmed or whatever it is and you're paying attention to that, paying attention to what, what happens to work you out of that space and just the opposite as well.
23:11 What makes me smile?
23:12 What am I smiling at?
23:13 Once we become very self-aware of ourselves, that we then become more aware of other people.
23:20 Right, so we can see how, oh, it's a little too noisy here or they're a bit too overwhelmed or, right, so self-awareness is not selfishness, it really does help to build a healthier external relationships.
23:35 So the more aware we are of ourselves, the more aware we will be of other people.
23:39 That's my number one tip.
23:41 #2 is seeing things from others' perspectives.
23:45 The greatest way to do that is to be in tune with your own perspective and then flipping it.
23:52 Right, so that's another key that I get from, you know, dealing with a lot of young people, you know, I'm a preceptor at a college and you hear them a common phrase, which wasn't so common when I was young, but it's that's not fair, right?
24:06 OK, it's not fair for you, and I get that.
24:11 What about for the other person?
24:13 What do you think they're feeling at this moment?
24:15 And just having that conversation, so then we take that to ourselves, and we feel some sometimes sometimes on jobs and in family situations, especially when you have siblings, right, that things are just not fair.
24:27 This person is getting this and that goes on all the way to our adulthood, right?
24:31 You know, the grandma's watching spending more time with these set of grandchildren, not that set of grandchildren, just all these things.
24:38 So practice seeing it from the other person's perspective.
24:42 What do they see?
24:44 What is it that they possibly could need that you don't necessarily need that would make the situation necessary for them?
24:51 Right, that other person's perspective will, it will be foundational for Stopping an argument or disagreement before it even happens, when we have that habit always and again these are habits.
25:07 We don't wanna wait till we get right in the thick of things to try to see something from otherspective.
25:11 It may be a little hard, right?
25:13 But if we just develop those habits like when we're getting along really good and things are going really great.
25:17 See how they may see that it's a little bit different.
25:19 Why is that why is that a happy situation for them?
25:22 What's their perspective on this, right?
25:25 So that's important.
25:26 And then there is.
25:28 A judgment free.
25:31 Open conversation.
25:35 Communication that is judgment free and making deliberate space for that, especially in families.
25:42 I love when you said.
25:43 That around the family, you know, around the dinner table.
25:46 It was also a great place in my household.
25:50 Excuse me, to have.
25:51 , open dialogue, right?
25:54 And it's also, freeing where people are eating and they're a little bit more relaxed, just to open up conversation without the, you know, raising the eyebrow raising the eyebrow or Trying to correct, just listening, right, and adopting phrases that encourage non-judgment and one of my favorites is, I can see how you can see it that way.
26:19 Oh, that's interesting.
26:20 Tell me more, right?
26:22 Curiosity is a great way to reduce.
26:25 Judgment, right?
26:27 And naturally we are curious, right?
26:30 Because we say things and we make it sound so condescending and negative.
26:33 I can't believe this person would do.
26:35 What are you thinking?
26:36 That's curiosity, right?
26:37 That's all that is.
26:38 Now let's take the edge off of it, right?
26:41 Say, oh yeah, it's interesting.
26:43 I wouldn't have done it that way.
26:45 You know, that's interesting.
26:46 Tell me more, right, so learning to communicate without judgment is a great way to deepen relationship and have healthy relationship with family members when they know that you are a safe space.
26:59 It doesn't mean that you agree with everything, right?
27:02 But there's a time and Place for an opposing viewpoint, right, but not doing that open communication.
27:08 It's all right unless you think there's gonna be immediate danger.
27:10 It's all right to go back a week for that, think about that conversation we had last week, and I have something I want to add.
27:17 Can I tell you, would it be OK?
27:19 They asking for permission again.
27:21 Another tip for having healthy relationships is practicing authentic and sincere forgiveness.
27:31 This is so very important.
27:34 Whether we want to be offended or not, there are going to be things within a family dynamic that are gonna be hurtful, disappointing, and just downright to use the phrase unfair.
27:48 Right, but if you go back to self-awareness, if you go back to seeing things for other person's perspective, if you go back to a non-judgment zone, you can get to sincere forgiveness.
27:59 Sincere forgiveness doesn't mean that I agree.
28:03 It simply means that I don't choose to harbor resentment towards you.
28:11 OK I don't choose to do that, right?
28:14 Even if we never come eye to eye on the issue, I don't choose to harbor resentment towards you.
28:22 I think it was Nelson Mandela said that, you know, it's like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die, right?
28:30 And it's you that's killing you with unforgive.
28:33 But the death of you is also ruining that relationship and has the potential to fester, to work through the whole family like yeast and ruin lots of relationships and cause division.
28:45 So that sincere, authentic forgiveness, I can't tell you how important that is, is to get to that place where I may not agree, I may still wish you'd never done it, but I am, I am consciously choosing to let go of resentment.
29:05 It takes a while, it's not easy, but it takes a while to get there.
29:08 And then creating opportunities for laughter.
29:14 Right, and smiles.
29:15 Yeah, that's so important in families that you could just kick back and just laugh about the silliest things, kick back and just have a, this is a no, in my family we used to have a no heavy conversations period, right?
29:28 No heavy conversations.
29:29 It means you couldn't talk about job problems, you couldn't talk about school problems.
29:33 All we could talk about we we daydream and we'd make up songs and all that kind of stuff and act silly because that is what bonds.
29:42 You need that, you need to go back and say, you know, when we're playing this game together, we're playing that game, you'll need those fun times to help cushion for the other times they are coming, and we cannot stop the unwanted from happening sometimes.
29:56 It's gonna happen.
29:57 We're all human, right?
29:59 But if we have those.
29:59 That good fun stuff to go back to, right?
30:03 Those are those memories that you can go back and say, I actually really do like this person, and these are the things that I like about them.
30:08 That's another like bonus thing that I didn't write on my little card here, but remembering what you like about somebody is so very important.
30:17 And so I mentioned that I had journal when I was 17 years old.
30:21 I am a journal.
30:22 I write down things and I encourage people to do that, like, you know, write down what it is you love about your son or you'll need it when they become teenagers, trust me.
30:33 Then you'll need these wonderful memories and I encourage my kids too, like mom's not horrible.
30:37 Write down some of the wonderful things that you like about me.
30:40 Here I can give you some suggestions.
30:43 But do those kind of things, make it fun, so that you know that when people disappoint you, you don't define them by that event.
30:52 Right, it could be, you know, there's a lot more to a person than that.
30:55 And then be vulnerable.
30:58 You and I, we in in a relationship, in a family, we have got to decide to be open and vulnerable.
31:06 That means, you know, it's of course you wanna have healthy boundaries, but that means being honest with our emotions, being emotionally intelligent and being able to say this hurts.
31:18 I know you love me, but it hurts, you know, I feel scared when you behave this way, as I tell my kids all the time, when the teacher calls me.
31:27 I get scared, and here's why I get scared because in my mind I'm thinking that, oh my gosh, if you did this in the 3rd grade, what were you doing in the 4th grade?
31:36 What are you doing?
31:36 I said, I know it's irrational.
31:38 I know it's irrational.
31:39 I know you're a great kid, but that's why mommy sometimes yells and explaining that so that they can go back and say, Mom, I think you're being irrational.
31:50 So I think you're right.
31:52 I think we could just live in this moment.
31:54 I think we can do even with our spouses and and our cousins and our, you know, we're we're all telling ourselves a backstory, right?
32:02 We do that, we tell ourselves our own story and being open with that and say, hey, this is the story that I'm telling myself about this.
32:10 Correct me if I'm wrong.
32:12 Does it mean, does this mean this?
32:14 You, you know, most 9 times out of 10, they'll love that you said they're like, go, how could you get that from that, right?
32:20 That's being open and vulnerable and oftentimes that is the scariest part of being in a relationship because we do want to guard part of ourselves as a.
32:29 of protecting ourselves, but we have to remember that these are people that we've either chosen to do life with or the universe has chosen that we will do life with.
32:39 Vulnerability will be necessary.
32:41 So those are some tips that I put together for our talk today and I hope that they'll be helpful for people.
32:45 I hope they're easy too.
32:46 I try to make everything very, very easy.
32:50 Yeah, I mean, everything you said is just so profound, and I think that, you know, listeners will really be able to take those away.
32:59 And, you know, it was making me think like, I think the reason that they can be used like how you said, they're easy, right?
33:07 They're easy to remember, they're easy to write down, sometimes not always easy in practice, right, because that's like the work.
33:14 and I think sometimes it's hard because, you know, we, people tend to want to like get their point across or they want to be right or it's like very ego driven, right?
33:25 So, you know, what advice do you have for someone and and I know you just gave so much advice, but What advice do you have for someone on how to forgive and on how to kind of see things from someone else's point of view, rather than just wanting that like having that like knee jerk reaction, that urge to just get their own point across or to be understood themselves.
33:48 Yeah, that's so important, right?
33:50 And so going into everything, take view yourself as an expert, first of all, right?
33:57 And an expert doesn't need validation from the crowd, right?
34:00 So view yourself differently.
34:02 I'm begging you to see it my way and therefore, I don't even need to express if it's inappropriate at this time.
34:09 I don't need to get into this battle royale where I'm trying to sway your opinion, right?
34:15 So once I respect myself as that on whatever the topic is, and I very well may not be an expert, when I, when I see myself differently, not, you know, needing to change your point of view so that I feel validated, so that I feel correct, right?
34:32 That changes the whole tone of the communication.
34:35 Now I can listen, right?
34:39 So I don't need you to validate my point of view.
34:42 I don't need you to agree with me that this is the way that you should see the world.
34:47 I can just listen, right?
34:49 And when I, when I start to listen to you, right, and really listen more so to Sometimes we listen to only what's being said, and we know for ourselves that.
35:01 What's most important sometimes is what's not said, because that's where we hide our truth.
35:05 So we just listen and, and we listen for those points of vulnerability in their own conversation, taking the words out of it necessarily, but just listen to underneath that conversation to what they must be feeling, right?
35:18 And going from that place, always seeking to validate them in that moment, let them know like you said earlier, you are heard, you were seen.
35:25 I appreciate your point of view.
35:27 Doesn't mean I agree with it, so we're not asking you as the listener to invalidate your feelings, right?
35:34 You appreciate their point of view, any intelligent person would appreciate someone else's point of view.
35:38 It doesn't mean that you agree with it.
35:40 So just taking that back.
35:43 Taking that step back from needing to change your mind.
35:48 Now, I want to say that that's not as easy as it sounds either, right?
35:52 Because I was gonna say that one of my favorite phrases is it's simple hard, which means it's simple to understand a little bit harder to put into day to day practice as we get faced with real life situations.
36:03 So I'm gonna use teenagers.
36:05 Because those are really challenging times when you're a parent and you have teenagers because you really do want to sway a lot of their thoughts and you want to sort of, at least I'm speaking for me, you want to maneuver them along a certain way of thinking.
36:20 Well, newsflash, you really can't, right?
36:23 So, but what we can't do is validate the fact.
36:26 That they are thinking, right, and become a validator, oh wow, just curiosity, always curiosity.
36:36 As the expert, you are always seeking to learn, put yourself in that expert position.
36:41 It says school is never out for the for the expert, right?
36:45 So always, oh, really?
36:46 Well, tell me more about that.
36:48 And how did you arrive at really and ask the next question, and the next question, and the next question, till eventually they're all out of answers or they have questions for you.
36:57 And if they never ask you a question, don't offer any advice at that time.
37:02 That is simple.
37:04 You think about it for a while and then come back at a softer, more tender, more a time when they're more receptive to say, hey, talking about that, I think give us some of your viewpoints some thought.
37:16 Now how validating is that?
37:18 That is really validating that somebody said something that they know you didn't agree with.
37:23 And you've been thinking about their viewpoints.
37:26 That'll help, that'll help with that knee jerk response of I, I gotta say this, I gotta say that.
37:33 Really in that moment, know that their surface is probably not as porous as you would like it to be.
37:39 They're not able to receive that, right?
37:41 So you wanna save that so that you can maybe come back to it when the surface is more can absorb that.
37:49 Yeah, I love that idea of going at it with curiosity, and I love the idea of asking questions like you were saying, tell me more because they're going to keep opening up to you and and they're going to know that they can talk to you and that they're not going to be met with judgment.
38:03 I just, I'm just like loving your advice and, you know, like you said, form a habit, like I can't wait to start implementing some of this in just my own conversations with people.
38:14 It's just You know, I, I feel like it's life changing when you go, when you, when you flip your perspective about how you interact with people.
38:22 OK, so here's, here's a tricky question.
38:26 How do you deal with those toxic family members, the ones that maybe a parent, maybe a sibling that you can't just cut out of your life, but The interactions are very toxic.
38:40 What's your advice for those?
38:41 Oh yeah, so when I think about, you know, Thanksgiving, you know, dinner, there's always that one person that comes up that wants to remind you of all your past mistakes and failures can find somebody, just make it very, very uncomfortable for you.
38:57 So the first thing is, remember, you don't fight fire with fire.
39:01 All that does is cause a bigger blaze, right?
39:04 And so, and this is a real life story for me.
39:06 I was lecturing in upstate New York and came face to face with a bear.
39:11 And got out of my car.
39:12 There was the bear, there was me.
39:15 And all I could remember in that moment was somewhere in my reading over the years, I remembered that when you come in contact with a wild animal, always make yourself small.
39:30 So that they don't feel as though you're attacking them, right?
39:35 And so I, I said, well, don't make eye contact, and I stood there and I don't remember what was going through my mind except for I thought I was gonna be the end of me at that moment, but I stood there in that moment, I cast my eyes downward, the bear just moved away and I ran like the Dickens into the into the building, but This is sort of the way I deal with and I advise you to deal with toxic family members.
40:01 We will not engage head to head.
40:03 I won't give you that opportunity, right?
40:06 I will affirm you for, I will look deliberately look for good in you.
40:11 If you're, if you're in this event, you choose to bring up all of my past failures, what does that tell me about you?
40:19 You have an excellent memory.
40:22 And I will focus on that.
40:25 And I will applaud you for your excellent.
40:27 I will applaud you for being an excellent storyteller and a historian for this family.
40:34 I will never go head to head with you because in that moment, I'm triggered, right?
40:40 Because you were pushing my buttons, so I have to have the habit of looking for it.
40:46 Is there anything I can use here?
40:49 Right, to change this situation, this environment.
40:54 So that it takes the negative focus off of me, off of my kids, off of my goodness, every time you come around, Bill, you're, I'm always amazed at how good your memory is, you know, have you ever thought about, you know, our family history, people say, you know, it gets lost because we don't write it down.
41:12 I switched that.
41:13 I look for something to be grateful for in that moment, gratitude.
41:18 Works, but if, and it is a human tendency, I will tell you this takes practice.
41:23 It is a human tendency, the ego, the brain, there's a part of the brain that seeks to protect us even from things that are not really that dangerous, but it sees all of it as a threat to our survival, and it stands up and says, Aha, you wanna fight.
41:39 But in that moment.
41:42 That fight, even if we seem to win that argument or or or or become or subdue that toxic person with more toxicity, take stock in how you feel.
41:55 It has depleted you, like you're not in your happy space.
42:00 You may have got a win, but at what cost to you.
42:04 So we'll take our win the other way, right?
42:07 They'll never see it coming, and that's how I, everything with gratitude, and that takes practice.
42:12 So prac start practicing now when you hear people talk, listen to, oh, what's great about this person?
42:18 Oh my goodness.
42:20 And spotlight that become a spotlighter of that.
42:22 You're looking for the good in them, and that's how you will eventually sit through.
42:28 What great advice and and.
42:31 Anyone hearing some kind of compliment or something kind spoken to them is immediately disarmed, right?
42:37 So chances are they're gonna, they're gonna come down and, you know, not be so heightened to themselves.
42:44 You know, I, I just love everything you've shared today.
42:47 Is there, is there anything that we haven't talked about that you think would be really helpful for listeners to hear when it comes to relationships?
42:55 Well, one thing we have talked about, but I, I think it's worth mentioning it again, is one, we have.
43:02 These relationships, family relationships we're focusing on today are so very precious.
43:07 We don't know where they're gonna go.
43:09 They're gonna take a life of their own and grow, but from there, this is our Academy, our school for life, right?
43:18 We're safer here in these relationships to learn and to put these practices and and develop habits there.
43:25 So practice, practice, practice.
43:27 You have a family, most likely.
43:31 Even if you can't see it right now, I know a lot of times teenagers don't see it, they love you unconditionally, even if they're so damaged in some way that they can't show it.
43:40 This is a safe place to practice habits that will be healing for you and for those relationships, and I guarantee you, you'll be one of those people that they may not remember what you said, but they will remember how you made them feel.
43:55 In that moment, you had an opportunity to be sarcastic, that used to be my, my tool of choice, right?
44:05 When I got scared with sarcasm, right?
44:08 But to replace that because sarcasm is a sign of fear.
44:11 Right, to replace that with being, being grateful, right, and say this may not be cool to say, but it's just how I see you and and and watching how that impacts you.
44:22 So take those moments, go slow and steady in practice.
44:27 Yeah, I like that, and I like that you said sarcasm is a tool when we're fearful because you were talking about earlier, like, so many of these reactor reactions that people have come from their own fear, their own pain.
44:41 So I think having, like you've kind of been saying like having compassion for that, and, and just understanding that that's where it comes from, right, that and that's such a human.
44:54 A human emotion that we all deal with and that we've, we've felt scared at times, right, and probably reacted in ways that we weren't proud of in those moments, so.
45:05 Yeah.
45:07 It's a wonderful thing and when you start doing it, I'll tell you it's amazing to be able to talk to people and actually see them, right?
45:16 More than the words that are coming, you could see the fear, and there's something in us we don't want to see people hurt, right?
45:23 It allows you to, OK, where is it that I can be of help to this individual?
45:28 You become almost like a healer, right, in these relationships where people feel like, oh my goodness, I feel so much better after being in your presence, and it's not just one sided.
45:38 You begin to get energized from these, you know, relationships as well.
45:42 So it's, it's giving and it's receiving all in the same place when we learn how to deal with family relationships in a healthy way.
45:51 Thank you so much for coming on, Dr.
45:53 Devon.
45:53 I, I feel like this was such a beautiful conversation and I appreciate you taking the time to share all this wisdom.
45:59 And I'm sure listeners are just dying to know more about you, where they can connect with you, what you're up to, your book, your podcast, all the things, so please let us know.
46:10 OK, wonderful.
46:11 Thank you for asking.
46:12 Well, my website is just my name, Doctor Dravon Jane.com.
46:16 You can find me there.
46:17 You can find out what's going on in the world of everyday peacemakers.
46:21 I, you can find me first Monday of every month on Sirius XM.
46:26 I'm the life coach on the Road Dog Trucking show with with.
46:30 Host Tim Ridley.
46:31 You can find me on all social media media outlets under my name, Doctor Drevon James, and my book, Freedom Is Your Birthright, which is a tiny book I highly encourage for people if they want to learn how to live free and free indeed.
46:46 It's under 100 pages and it's available on Amazon.
46:51 So, and of course my podcast is on Mind Body Spirit FM and it is on every Saturday.
46:57 You can find it on anywhere where you listen to podcasts.
47:00 It's Doctor Drayvon James, Everyday Peace.
47:03 Thank you so much.
47:04 You're up to so many things right now.
47:06 That's amazing.
47:06 Good for you.
47:08 And all of those links are going to be in the show notes as well.
47:11 So if you're driving or in a place you couldn't have jotted that down, you can just come revisit this.
47:15 So thank you so much again.
47:17 I appreciate you.
47:18 If you are listening and there is someone that you think will be helped by this episode, please send it to them, like, comment, share, subscribe, all of the things, and I will see you all next week.
47:29 Have a beautiful rest of your day.
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