0:00Hi everyone, welcome back to the Change Your Mind podcast, where we explore personal development, spirituality and science.
0:06I'm your host, Chris Ashley.
0:07I'm really, really excited for today's guest.
0:10We are going to talk all about epigenetics, which is just a fascinating field and it really ties into so much of what we talk about on the show.
0:19, first, a couple of quick announcements.
0:21If you head to the link in the show notes, you'll find a lot there.
0:25You'll find ways to sponsor the podcast.
0:28You will find links to my book, Change your mind to change your reality, you'll find free courses,, paid courses as well, free downloads, free live masterclass, and all of my guests links as well.
0:42And then as always, this podcast is part of the Los Angeles Tribune podcast Network.
0:46We're doing a lot with personal development.
0:49We just had the amazing LA Leadership Week and I was on a panel.
0:53So check out what we're doing, it's really exciting.
0:57Hi, I'm Chris.
0:58When I was younger, I went through trauma that caused me to feel broken and lost.
1:03But my life changed after I had a spiritual awakening.
1:06Since then, I've dedicated my life to studying and learning from masters all around the world that have helped me to create a life of fulfillment and abundance beyond my wildest dreams.
1:16Now I'm dedicated to sharing everything I've learned so that you don't have to suffer for decades like I did.
1:21I've seen people's lives completely transformed, and I share it all right here.
1:28OK, let's get into it.
1:29So with me, I have Brenda Wallenberg, and you know what, Brenda, I didn't even ask you how to pronounce your last name.
1:34Did I pronounce that correctly?
1:35Yeah, you'd be great.
1:37OK.
1:38All right.
1:38So I have Brenda Wallenberg with me.
1:40Brenda is a specialist in analyzing and interpreting genetic profiles to design personalized holistic wellness programs.
1:48She's been featured on TV and podcasts, has had articles and newspaper columns published, and enjoys teaching a variety of educational and corporate settings.
1:57, she is the author of Overweight Kids in a Toothpick World.
2:02She's also the author of Eat Sleep Move for Your Genetic Body Type, How to Physically and Emotionally Care for Unique You, really great titles, by the way.
2:10She loves to co-create with her clients.
2:12Yeah, I've I've always loved titles,.
2:15And yeah, Brenda has been a social worker.
2:19She's a co-leader of a faith community and a nutritionist.
2:23So I'm so excited to have you here, Brenda, welcome.
2:26I am really glad to be here, even our little pre talks both times were like, oh, we should be having coffee together somewhere, so.
2:32I think it's gonna be good.
2:34Yeah, where do you live, by the way?
2:35What?
2:36Just outside Vancouver, DC.
2:38OK, we're, we're, we're nowhere near each other.
2:41It's like, probably would be nice.
2:42Yeah, just a little backstory, Brenda and I were just chatting for 10 minutes and I was like, wait, I need to press record because I'm just, this is fascinating.
2:49, so, you know, I always start my shows off the same way, and that is by asking my guests what their origin story is.
2:56So what led you on this path to want to learn about epigenetics and nutrition?
3:03So I'll just give a 32nd explanation of epigenetics for those that are going, oh darn it, I gotta go type in Google and look up this word, OK.
3:12Yeah, yeah, so epi comes from the Greek word for over or above, and in this case, it means over and above the genome, so our actual DNA material, you know, get stranded DNA from your biological mom, stranded DNA from your biological dad.
3:27It then codes billions of proteins that makes you who you are, OK.
3:32epigenetics says that we are not just bound and determined by our genetics.
3:38So if we have a gene, a gene that predisposes us to certain types of ailments, for example, or we have a gene that predispose exposes us to a long life, for example, we can impact that.
3:52Either for the good or for the bad, by what we do, by how we eat, how we exercise, how we sleep, what we think about,, and likewise, the environmental things that happen around us.
4:02So that's the little mini, you know, nutshell, epigenetics one on one kind of spiel.
4:08how I ended up the evolution of me here.
4:12I, I think,, as you mentioned, I started off as a social worker, and I think a lot of people in the health, helping, helping profession, healthy, helping profession, and up there,, sometimes to try to see if they can bring a measure of resolution to their own origin, their own family of of origin, their own upbringing.
4:32And I know for me, that was part of it.
4:34We had a large family and then had lots of foster kids.
4:38We adopted, had 4 adopted siblings.
4:41And it was sometimes a really great loving house and sometimes it's a really chaotic house with mental health kind of, you know, issues rippling through it.
4:51And,, I just, I, in hindsight, I think I thought I need to.
4:56To become a social worker, psychologist or something and try to figure out how to process all of this stuff in my life and retain the really amazing parts and bring some resolution to the things that were more challenging.
5:08So that was kind of my first, you know, you need to do this thing.
5:12You mentioned pastoring, and we're, I'm not currently co-leading a faith community, but for 15 years, my husband, Mark and I did.
5:19And that I think was one of the biggest parts of me seeing kind of body, mind and spirit all connected.
5:28You know, you can do the social work training and you're really wrapped up in brain and neurological development and different ways that, you know,, we can become more or less emotionally sound, and then you feel the emotional, sorry, the spiritual component into it and start doing a lot of work on.
5:47Evaluating the other, you know, what's outside of me, whatever you call it, God, source, you know, even shared humanity.
5:54There's something beyond us.
5:55And those 15 years with a lot of exploring of that.
5:59And I remember sitting down on the couch by my husband one day and said, Oh man, like I really feel like I want to go back to school to become a nutritionist, because I've been a really sick social worker and helpful nutrition and herbalism had really helped with that.
6:13And he looked at I mean, I thought he was going to go, are you a serious woman?
6:16Like, what do you just like want to do a new career every 10 years, you know?
6:19But he didn't.
6:20He said, That makes so much sense.
6:23Like, you've got the emotional component, you've got the spiritual component.
6:27Probably time to go back and get the book learning on the, you know, the, the physical, the kind of sleep, the eating, all of that kind of stuff.
6:36So that was how the layers all came together into this complex.
6:42Situation where I'm completely loving what I'm doing now blending all together.
6:48I love that story.
6:49Thank you for sharing that and thank you for, I love that you put it into the context of mind, body and spirit, because as you were saying that, I was like, of course, it makes sense and it all ties together.
7:00And I mean, I'm curious like if you found that epigenetics, even how that ties into spirituality too, right?
7:07Because if you think about like being your own conscious creator or co-creator with God, like, I mean, I'm just, I don't want to put words in your mouth.
7:14How has that affected the spiritual side too?
7:17Oh, my goodness.
7:18Like, you more that you understand,, how, so you get this set of DNA and it has this way that it should express itself.
7:28Like, for example, think about,, electrical panel in your basement or your garage or wherever it is, and when you're born, you know, all of your genes, which code generally for a protein, are all flipped a certain way on that switch.
7:43That is your baseline, OK?
7:46But what happens after that, whether it is a traumatic power surge, whether it is a power encounter with the divine, whether it is a sense of shared community, whether it is proper nutrition, those surges have the ability to keep the genes that are flipped into their optimum position in that position.
8:10And to actually, not so much, I mean, you can't go, you can't change your genes, OK?
8:15If you have a coding, for example, that A and a T, there's four letters of the alphabet and the gene alphabet, A, C, T, and G.
8:23and say you were an A and a T, you got an A from one of your parents and a T from the other.
8:27No matter what you do for your whole entire life, you, you're not going to change.
8:31That coding, but if that's a positive beneficial coding, you can do things that allow that to be easily expressed.
8:38And if it is a more challenging coding, it's one that, for example, has you not be able to use many carbohydrates or it has you more prone to being stuck in cortisol fight or flight mode.
8:50You can do things.
8:52Do what you eat, the kinds of mindfulness you practice, the way that you,, you know, lift the burden off yourself of believing that you have to be doing everything for yourself and not connecting with some kind of form of higher power.
9:07All of those things are going to reduce stress, increase,, metabolic health and energy.
9:15Just have ripple effects that are going to allow your positive beneficial genes to express and ones that are more challenging.
9:22In the words of Bruce Lipton wrote a book called Biology of Belief a number of years ago.
9:28Yeah, yeah.
9:29In it, he talks and he's gonna probably just die when I try to explain this because I am not a biologist, OK.
9:35But somehow it's almost like a little sheet.
9:38Gets right pulled over that part of your DNA where that gene, which might be more challenging in your current environment, and it just isn't allowed to be expressed.
9:49, and so that puts a lot of power back in our hands and around choices of what we do.
9:55So that was a long answer to the spiritual component, but I believe that when we have sound, healthy relationship with what we consider to be beyond, that just in every way, self-esteem, not feeling like you have to do everything by yourself, feeling like there's purpose, all of those things enhance gene expression.
10:16So.
10:17Yeah, no, I, I, I loved your long answer, and I love that you talked about Bruce Lipton.
10:21I love him.
10:22I got to meet him.
10:23, and give him my book and he was so sweet.
10:26And yeah, because I quote him a lot in it.
10:29, you know, like, as you're talking, it really, it also is a sense of like personal responsibility, right?
10:36You can't just, and it almost makes you step into your own power a little bit, right, because so often we kind of fall into that victim mode of, oh, it's just a genetic thing, right?
10:46Like, or I just like inherited this and that's how it is, but you really can change.
10:53You really can't change your genes and you were talking about your, the environment, it's not just your outer environment, your inner environment too, right?
11:02I know Bruce talks about that a lot.
11:04Oh, yeah, I know someone was, I was talking to someone the other day and they were astounded, they interrupted me and they said, hold it.
11:10You're not just talking, you know, the pesticides that are being sprayed on the lawn next door, or, you know, the fact that you're, you know, Bad air quality in your house or your shampoo, you're talking you know on top of your food, you're talking about the way that you think about yourself and the way that you see yourself, and whether you believe that you have potential.
11:31they said to me, you mean like that is considered epigenetics as well?
11:36And I'm like, absolutely, it's not just these tangible.
11:40Oh, I got too many pesticides in my, on my vegetables today.
11:44It's inner and outer environment.
11:47So absolutely.
11:48And that, and that's why,, the aspect of trauma, especially childhood, childhood trauma, plays such a role in epigenetic expression to the, to the fact that when I'm in some of my training.
12:02, that I take within this field, they will actually say this particular gene, for example, is in particular impacted by childhood trauma.
12:12So, you know, trauma that happens before certain years can really interfere with or have this expression get altered or whatever.
12:21So, so yeah, it's, it's a really interwoven for sure.
12:26Wow, and listeners now, I'm sure as Brenda was talking that light bulb went off, you're like, OK, now this is why Brenda's on the podcast.
12:32This is why epigenetic ties into it.
12:35So what are there just, can you think of any examples that trauma specific like genes that trauma specifically can really alter?
12:43Yeah, absolutely.
12:44Like, like when.
12:46When I,, when I teach in this field,, I have actually very fortunate.
12:50I have a PhD.
12:52I have a biologist partner in this, which is always nice to have when you're studying this.
12:55She has a PhD in botany, but we do,, we look at about 11 or 12 different categories.
13:02So we'll look at metabolic functioning, so how you process.
13:05Use food, make energy.
13:07We will look at how you absorb and utilize different kinds of vitamins and minerals.
13:12We look at like longevity genes, and then the classic cholesterol, reproductive hormone genes, etc.
13:19But the big category that we look at is, and especially because of my interest in,, social work and mental.
13:25Health and emotional health, where she gets dragged with me down every, you know, big thing to do with that,, if we look at neurological health, we look at long term and short term stress responses.
13:36We look at dopamine production, serotonin production, all of those types of things.
13:41And that, it seems that that category in particular, which is not.
13:48Not understandable, double negative there has a lot to do with childhood trauma.
13:53The one gene I want to talk about in particular called an FKBP5 and, I'm gonna give another little mini bioinal thing here on the, the HPA axis.
14:03So your hypothalamus pituitary adrenal axis.
14:05We have lots of HP axis, HP gonadal, HP adrenal, you know, the, the, the hypothalamus pituitary impacts a lot of different things in the body, but the the little kind of row that you see them sitting on in an HPA axis if you're kind of thinking about a diagram in front of you, the hypothalamus.
14:24This produces certain kinds of little messages and hormones that dribble down to the pituitary gland, which in turn makes more messages and sends them down to the adrenal gland.
14:33And this particular,, HPA axis has what's called the negative feedback loop.
14:40Several of them do.
14:41But what's happening is once you, your adrenal glands have got the message, oh, you need to be producing cortisol.
14:46, and that could be just because it was waking up in the morning and got some light.
14:51On your face, and, you know, it's time to get up and be focused for the day.
14:55That should drop, you know, throughout the day.
14:57Or it can be because you were, you know, walking on the sidewalk and you see a runaway car coming your way, you know, and all of a sudden cortisol kicks up because that is essential for fighter flight.
15:10That's not when you want your rational brain going, Oh, let's see.
15:13Let's see if I can compute the trajectory of that vehicle.
15:16I wonder roughly how You know, you just want the part of your brain that goes, jump over the damn head.
15:20I just get over the head.
15:22OK.
15:22And so cortisol is super helpful.
15:25We need it, but we need it in specific amount.
15:30We don't want it high levels all throughout the day.
15:33So therefore, this feedback loop says to the hypothalamus, OK, just pituitary gland.
15:39OK, we have enough cortisol.
15:41Thank you very much.
15:42You can slow down production.
15:44So if you are what we call red, you got the double homozygous, you got the challenging gene from both of your folks.
15:52We think red traffic light, this could be a bit problematic.
15:55OK.
15:55, I have it, so I can speak well to this.
15:59What happens is, it's like your hypothalamus and pituitary gland simply go, We're not listening, we're not listening.
16:07And they don't tell the adrenal glands to slow down production.
16:11And I gotta tell you.
16:13This was the most amazing thing I could discover 5 years ago.
16:17It was very disheartening.
16:18I went, oh crap, double red.
16:20Although you never be, oh crap, because these are your genes.
16:22They got you here.
16:23I was really good at running away from Pterodactyl.
16:26OK.
16:27But when we live in a state where we're chronically exposed to stress, And it is not that kind of quick, oh, run away or oh go get food for supper, but it's just like ongoing, oh my, my list is too long, my child is having this struggling, my parents are aging and whatever.
16:46Being stuck in that is not helpful.
16:49So I know every Exercise, known to mankind, spiritually, physically, emotionally, you know, mentally to get into parasympathetic.
16:59I can box free with the best of them.
17:01I can, you know, physiological sigh.
17:03I can whatever, walk in nature, you know, cold shower, forest days, the whole nine yards, and I would get into rest incuperative parasympathetic side, feel myself, you know, start to calm down.
17:17I feel like I would sneeze, and I would be back in fight or flight, and you'd spend You know, 80% of your life trying to meditate, quiet, calm, centered prayer, get in, you know, as the person to say it again.
17:31The day that I learned, oh my goodness, I have actually don't have an ability to easily stay in there.
17:38Like I just produce way too much cortisol and ongoing.
17:40Basis.
17:41And I learned what to do about it.
17:42And we said that.
17:43Oh my goodness, I've been like the most deli person.
17:46You might find that hard to believe when you talk to me, but relatively speaking, it has made a significant difference for me and for clients.
17:54That particular gene is,, often negatively impacted by childhood trauma.
18:01Yeah.
18:02Wow, yeah, thank you so much for explaining all of that.
18:05I, I have like a basic understanding of a lot of it, so I was following, but it's so fascinating to learn about this.
18:13And, and by the way, I feel like I'm also one of those people who have a really hard time like I have to really consciously bring myself down into a parasympathetic.
18:23So I totally understand that.
18:24, and yeah, so when you work with clients, you actually map all of this for people then, huh, and they can actually see, wow, that's so fascinating.
18:34Absolutely.
18:35Like,, and a map, it's a good word for it.
18:38It's gonna cover up a name here.
18:39And I know that you probably don't even do this,, I'll commentary on YouTube, but this is some of the 65 or 68 names that we cover.
18:49And we literally, you know, we get the raw genome file from 230M or like,, one.
18:55Company that we like to use now in Canada that ships all places called DNA Allure.
19:00They don't have some of the same security issues that 23andM seems to have sometimes.
19:04, and so we get this raw data.
19:06It's this big, this comes like a WordPad file with all these, you know, RS numbers, RS big string of numbers after them means nothing until you run them.
19:17Through a couple of different software programs that I'm trained in using.
19:20And out of that, then you get this roadmap of what I like to deal with and is the most relevant one.
19:29There you have lots of genes.
19:31You have lots of snips, single nucleotide polymorphisms that are like a little typo in the gene.
19:38But it doesn't make sense to learn about a lot of ones that you don't have an actual.
19:45Something you can do about it, like a practical application of that.
19:48So that's the ones that I concentrate on.
19:50So yeah, people will send me their raw genome files they're called, once they get them.
19:55I run them through the software.
19:56We make a little map, we come up with a concrete game plan, lots of dialogue, how they feel about this.
20:03Usually, people feel so relieved.
20:06Even if they have challenging genes, because they, like you just said, well, that makes so much sense.
20:12Now I understand why this, now I see why this is a problem.
20:16Now I also will have 123 steps I can do to try to help that gene either not be expressed, or to support it better if it should be producing better benefits.
20:28And can you actually change your genes then?
20:32So you can't change your genes.
20:34As I mentioned, if you were coded ANT for a gene when you were born, you will always be an A&T.
20:41But let's say, for example, that,, whatever, I'm just making up a gene here, but whatever gene it is, let's say A was what's called the variant, and that usually is the one that has the more challenging outcome, OK?
20:55And let's say T was the normal.
20:58OK.
20:59And again, usually, And all normal is the average, OK, that means usually it's that color.
21:06So when I have a client and say they were AA, they got an A from their mom and they got an A from their dad, they're kind of like double normal and traffic light.
21:16Scenarios, I would just say green.
21:19Probably not a challenge.
21:20It's just make sure that you do everything you can to support that.
21:24If they got an A from one parent and they got the T from another parent, then that would be what's called heterozygous.
21:30And in traffic light language, we say, OK, that's yellow.
21:34So this could be potentially a bit of a problem.
21:37We'll keep an eye on this.
21:38And if they got A from One parent and A from the other parent, it's like, I am with the FKBT 5 gene, red, then we are really gonna pay attention to that and see what we can do to help that support that gene.
21:54So it's not expressing itself in a challenging way.
21:58You can't change your genes from an A to a T or a C to a G or whatever, but you can absolutely impact whether or not or how they are expressed.
22:10And I, I, I've had clients come in, I'm thinking of one in particular young gentleman had some very challenging neurotransmitter genes, and plunked himself down in my office and he said, Oh, this just suck.
22:22I just have crappy genes.
22:24And I just said, OK, let's just stop right there.
22:27OK.
22:27So do you understand anything about evolution?
22:30Do you understand that you have really crappy genes, you wouldn't be here.
22:34OK.
22:35You think back, however many generations and thousands of years.
22:39Years ago, and survival of the fittest, you know, a lot of the genes codings that people end up with were ones that were really beneficial.
22:47There's this one gene, MC4R.
22:50It's my partner, my business partner and I call it the snacking gene.
22:54OK.
22:55It just, it just makes you seek, seek food.
22:59Like it just that's what it is.
23:00Even if you just finished eating a meal, you're rummaging around in your.
23:04Mini sized Costco pantry looking for something else to eat.
23:07And people that have that, like, let's see they have a double, you know, they're like, oh my goodness, I'm going, no, no, this was so good 5000 years ago.
23:16Everyone else is in the cave, playing cards, slowly starving, and you are out making sure that you have something to eat.
23:24It's this current environment.
23:26That makes that gene more challenging.
23:29And so that's the thing that we have to remember.
23:30And that's why I also don't like saying genes are good or bad or even like some of the neurodiversity that we are now recognizing in the way that neurologically people process information.
23:42, it's we need to understand that it's not that those genes are good or bad.
23:47It's depending what the environment currently is, that can make that gene more challenging to have, for example, than a different gene.
23:56So I think we can kind of avoid some of that good bad gene, bad language.
24:01And I'm reading a real, just finishing up an excellent book right now called The Gene An Intimate History of, I want to say genetics, it's by my, it's by my bad kind of the title, but the author talks a lot about things being a mismatch for current environment rather than being,, oh, not good, for example.
24:25Yeah, thanks for putting in that context that totally makes sense how that person is here today because their ancestors had that snacking gene, right?
24:34Probably how they survived.
24:35That's so fascinating to think about.
24:38So when, when you're working with people, are you working on to to make the genes expressed in the best way possible?
24:44Are you working on like diet, reducing toxins in their home?
24:48Like do you work with them emotionally too, like how, what does that look like?
24:52Yes, yes, yes, and yes, OK, so, so, yeah, so generally I, I try to sum it up in four categories.
25:01It's, it's what you eat, it's how you supplement that so many people are taking supplements they don't need or ones that are actually not good for them.
25:09, it's how you move, the type of physical activity that you do and how you calm.
25:15So what kind of stress management things do you have going on.
25:18And then, of course, the broader picture that you just mentioned around, you know,, the, the quality of your food, the quality of your air.
25:28The environmental types of toxins, because those are going to definitely impact some of us more than others.
25:35So, yeah, we look at everything.
25:37And the, the fun thing, like I'm, I don't know if you know much about grams, like I, like I'm a one, I'm super analytical.
25:44I love research.
25:45I just, my idea of a fun Friday night is Reading things or looking at documents by organic chemists.
25:51So like my husband's like, do you want to go watch a movie?
25:53Oh, just a minute, you know.
25:54But anyways, the reason I, I love, one of the reasons why I love working with epigenetics is that you can fine tune your dietary approach so much.
26:04Like me and my clients, they just are trying every latest, greatest.
26:09Keto, paleo, you know,, intermittent fasting, eating 6 times a day, like they just do not know.
26:17And with, once you know your metabolic genes and you know your carb, fat and response and sorry, and protein response genes, you know, if you are better off eating intermittent fasting, if you're better off three meals a day, you actually know your baseline.
26:33grams of protein that you should be eating per kilo of body weight.
26:37You know, if you can tolerate saturated fat, like I've got a husband who kicks but on a ketogenic diet.
26:43I practically die.
26:44My tolerance for saturated fat is very low.
26:48You need it.
26:48I need it.
26:49Everyone needs some saturated fat helps my cholesterol, helps make that hormones, but I need it a very small amount.
26:54And then carbohydrates, you know,, like, contrary to the kind of No carb, low carb kind of philosophy, we actually all need some amount of carbohydrates, even if it's simply from vegetables or starchy vegetables, certainly not sugar and I'm not talking sugar muffins, that kind of stuff, but we need some of that and our genes tell us how much we do best on.
27:20And if we Miss the boat on those.
27:23We can foster things like insulin resistance, different types of metabolic diseases,, hormone fluctuations that are out of whack.
27:31We can put on excess weight.
27:33We can have trouble gaining weight to get us to a comfortable size.
27:37So those things really play a role.
27:41And this is It's really fun to be able to help people fine tune it and just then not have to worry about the rest of life.
27:47Next time their buddy says, Oh, I'm trying this.
27:49You want to do it with me?
27:50They can go, Thanks, but no thanks.
27:52I nailed my exact optimal fuel mix.
27:55I'm good for the rest of my life.
27:57Thank you very much.
27:57That's where the ease of it comes in.
28:00You can just quit the searching all the time.
28:03That is so fascinating.
28:05Why you more people not know that?
28:07And oh, it's so new, Chris.
28:10I mean, literally, the human genome was only mapped 20 years ago last month.
28:16So it, it's like, you know, like, and when it first started, I'm going to exaggerate here, but really.
28:21Only people like multibillionaires could even afford to get their genetics tested.
28:28Like it it wasn't like now where, you know, on a, on a good Mother's Day so you can get your genes tested for like 149 bucks, like that was not happening.
28:37So it's only been Like literally the last 5678 years when it's become more available to us, and where we've actually started having people study it more, other than just the scientists that we're doing the research.
28:51So.
28:52Got it.
28:52Yeah, so it's really cutting edge.
28:54I mean, as you were talking, like my husband is the same way, like on keto, he like rocks it.
28:58I'm like, I can't do this.
29:00I get like shaky.
29:01I just, yeah, it makes me like angry.
29:04Yeah.
29:04, so is it the same with movement?
29:07I know you mentioned movement.
29:08Is it different types of wow.
29:11Yeah.
29:11So like, I love HIT, like even when I train for half marathons.
29:18I often train them with what they're called the sparklicks like the the you know fast like crazy and then just slow down for a short period of time, whatever.
29:25And, and, you know, I, I didn't know this because that was about 10 years ago that I was running half marathons, but I got my genetics back and I look at them and go, oh.
29:35That explains that.
29:36And it has to do with things like the ratio of slow to fast twitch muscle fibers that you have.
29:44OK, that makes a difference in whether you're more wired for kind of interval training or whether you're more wired for endurance training.
29:51There's that aspect.
29:53But then,, I mentioned there's two different software programs I use, the kind of,, gold standard when I use the one that costs.
30:00It's a fortune to run, you know, people's data through each time, not a fortune, but more, OK?
30:06, that one then also looks at, and how, what your muscles do with effort and work.
30:14Are you prone to inflammation?
30:16Are you prone, do you make enough collagen easily for repair and restoration of, you know, your muscles when you've been tearing down that fiber and need to build that back up again.
30:25So, I was able to fine tune my love of the interval training by going, oh, OK, I do have the right kind of muscle twitch fiber, which I knew about before.
30:36But I have challenging muscle repair genes and collagen production genes.
30:42So I'm gonna tailor my interval training instead of going like 95% all out from my, you know, high intensity part.
30:51I'm bumping that back to about 70 to 75% and instead of giving myself, you know, a minute for recovery.
30:58I'm going to give myself 2 minutes for recovery.
31:00Like that's literally how much you can fine tune it.
31:03, I do better on more reps, lighter weights.
31:08Some people, I had a client last week and she was better on heavy weights, you know, less reps.
31:13So all of that is part of what you can learn when you begin to understand more about your DNA.
31:21Wow, OK, well, I'm, I'm totally gonna do this with you.
31:24I'm like already like, OK, sign me up.
31:26I want to learn this.
31:28It's so fascinating and Oh my gosh, we only have 20 minutes left.
31:32I have so much I want to ask.
31:34Well, you mentioned the neuro neurodivergent thing, which is really interesting, and we're talking about like toxin load.
31:40Can you talk to me a little bit about that?
31:42Because I know, you know, I'm I'm a mother of a 3 month old and I'm thinking about toxin load a lot, you know, we're we're spacing out his vaccines more, we're being super mindful about everything filtered in the house and all of that.
31:56, so I'd love to hear how This whole epigenetic thing plays into it.
32:02Yeah.
32:02So it's like it's interesting because there are, there are some genes where there is one gene that contributes to an ailment, OK?
32:14And then there are other conditions,, high blood pressure, for example, there is no high blood pressure gene.
32:20Instead, there are multiple genes that then play a role in whether or not someone develops high blood pressure.
32:28, when we're looking at toxins.
32:32Toxins negatively impact everybody, OK?
32:36But they are going to more specifically negatively impact someone who has poor, what we call phase 1 or phase 2 detoxification genes.
32:45So, detoxification, predominantly the phase 1, phase 2, I'm talking about what happens in the liver.
32:51Phase one genes, they help break down those pesticides that are coming in.
32:57The free radicals that are a natural byproduct of your going for a run, for example.
33:03Those are fairly volatile elements, OK, compounds.
33:07And so phase one breaks them down.
33:09They're typically they have an unpaired electron, think back to organic chemistry.
33:14They're very selfish.
33:15They don't care about anybody else they're going around trying to stabilize themselves and ripping electrons off other cells, etc.
33:22So the body is going like.
33:23Now we got to get those those calmed down.
33:25We need to break those down to a less volatile compound.
33:28So that's what phase one does.
33:30Phase two then converts that less volatile, but still volatile form into a water soluble form that's then excreted through your liver, your kidneys, sorry, not your liver, your liver doesn't, but then excreted out of your body through your bowels and your kidneys and your lungs and your skin.
33:48OK.
33:49Going back to the question on, you know, is it important that you reduce toxins, absolutely, especially if you are someone that is challenged in the detoxification process, which is why you can have people even in the same family, living in the same household, eating the same kind of foods.
34:08But experiencing a higher degree of food intolerance or a higher degree of reaction to mold or a higher degree of, you know, skin issues or whatever, and it can be to do with these toxins.
34:22So it's really great that you're doing the best job that you can with that.
34:26, it's because when we look at Different types of ailments, detoxification almost always has a role in it.
34:36, when, when I look at that little map that I showed you, when I see,, high inflammation, for example, in inflammation genes, when I see problems of detoxification, that's where we start.
34:49We don't start by going, oh, you're a little low in your vitamin.
34:52I think we should get your vitamin D up.
34:54Yeah, absolutely, that's important.
34:56But if you're not detoxifying, if you are chronically inflamed, if you are stuck in fight or flight, that cortisol is going to contribute also to inflammation.
35:07We need to get to those root causes of those things, and then you're going to see other ailments start to improve just by virtue of you getting some building blocks sorted out.
35:19I don't even know if I answered your question, I mean, I'm, I'm learning so much from you.
35:24This might be like one of my favorite episodes I've ever done.
35:27And so, so basically what you're saying is, you know, the detox pathways aren't working as well as they should, and toxin burden is worrisome, but it also everything else plays a role in that, right?
35:41Like if you've gone through trauma, your emotions,.
35:44You know, the food you're eating like all of these things, right?
35:47Yeah, yeah.
35:48And because the thing is, is that we're not isolated back to our very beginning conversation.
35:53We're not body, mind, spirit.
35:56So when we have dealt with trauma and we are emotionally responding to things, and we're, you know, we're stuck in a, in a behavioral pattern of what we did when we were.
36:067 or 8 that helped us to feel safe.
36:08You know, that is whether that maybe that's binge eating on foods that are not all that helpful for us.
36:15Well, it's fine to keep telling you to stop doing that.
36:18But if we can't help you to break free through therapy and EMDR and maybe,, you know, a supplement is going to help reset that cycle, for example, you're not.
36:28Going to begin to have a better time of reducing excess, sorry, excess cortisol and other stress hormones, epinephrine, norepinephrine.
36:37So it's all tied together and the map helps us see,, these are probably the primary areas to start so that you can then have an easier time with the other areas and helping them get that well.
36:52Thanks for clarifying that.
36:53So, so would you take this map and let's say someone has detox pathways that aren't performing right, would you say, OK, you know, the step is to help supplement, to build up those pathways and make them stronger and then like, do you recommend the supplements or are you like, OK, take this to your functional medicine doctor, like, how does it work?
37:13Yeah, no, we're,, I keep saying we cause my partner and I do a lot of this,, bigger training together, but,, we're really trained well in the types of supplements that would be helpful in certain gene scenarios.
37:29So for example,, DIM.
37:31I've never, I'm ever going to say the long version of that because it's way too long and complicated, but it comes from because the first vegetables is in the complementary world, well known as something that can help to bind with, say, extra estrogen carried on the body.
37:49OK?
37:50Unfortunately, or fortunately, it comes in lots of different varieties, OK?
37:55Everyone could do well on some dim once in a while.
37:59But if you have very fast phase one, you think about like a funnel here.
38:04So if you have very fast phase one, and you have very slow phase two, dim helps with breaking down more of those compounds to dump them into that funnel.
38:16And how you speed up that phase, OK, is by eating a raw cruciferous vegetables, by doing things like milk thistle, by, you know, drinking peppermint tea.
38:29So if you already have a bottleneck here, OK, your space too is just going slow down.
38:35We cannot throw.
38:37this, then, you know, going to your local health food store, you know, online thing and think, I should do some dim.
38:44I read a great article.
38:45Now you can get this dim and it comes with, oh, great, it comes with milk thistle.
38:49That's great for everybody.
38:50Oh, and some peppermint.
38:51Oh, wonderful.
38:52You can be doing yourself a disservice by overloading that.
38:57So yeah.
38:58We really help people figure out what they need, what they don't need.
39:03Usually gets them to weed off stuff that they're on that they, it's not all that helpful, you know.
39:07, and, and just on that, like, for example, a lot of just vitamin mineral supplements, for example, some of the things, so when we look at the all the genetic coding for vitamins.
39:20A lot of the things that those genes do, these little snips, is they help.
39:26Activate or translate something from a precursor stage.
39:31Take vitamin A, beta-carotene, and your orange and yellow and red peppers, for example, your pumpkin, your carrots, OK?
39:38So when that beta carotene comes into your body, it has to go through a couple of little processes where there is a gene that codes for a protein that then in turn, turns that into retinol, which is the form that we use it in.
39:52And likewise with,, say,, the, the omega threes,, fatty acids that are found in box seed or walnuts, those need to be converted in the body into the EPA and DHA form of body uses, that's like found in salmon, for example.
40:09Well, if you don't have the snips.
40:12Coated in the right way for you to do that.
40:15And every day you're taking a multivite that has your vitamin A in beta-carotene form, you are wasting your money, OK?
40:25You actually need to take a vitamin mineral that has it already in the activated form.
40:30So we help people be able to look.
40:32What they're already doing, get rid of it.
40:34If there's some amazing products, different greens products, for example, really well formulated, etc.
40:41But they've got a lot of different things in them that are not good for certain people.
40:46So you want to not waste money on supplements that they are not helping you, or they're actually harming you.
40:52So.
40:53That is so fascinating.
40:55And it totally makes sense, you know, you were talking about people take so many supplements and I was laughing because my one of my best friend's husband is a functional medicine doctor, and he's always like, I used to take like everything and he was like, stop taking every supplement you've read an article about, like, let's get this down.
41:13But I didn't know about like taking like, you know, The different versions of it, like you were saying, so that's really, really cool, that's really fascinating.
41:24So how does this play into things like autoimmune diseases or autism like are are there things that we can do to turn on and off genes that can help people?
41:35Yeah, yeah, absolutely, and some of it, I, I, I think my next book is gonna be on,, metabolic health for autism.
41:44OK, that's what, that's where, that's why I think I'm going, OK,, but it, it has to do with again.
41:51And looking big picture.
41:54So what are environmental things that are going on?
41:57How can we clean up food supply?
42:00How can we make sure that we're supplementing the things that we need.
42:03But again, with things like autism and autoimmune disease, a lot of times,,, a component of this is the detoxification, like you mentioned, OK?
42:15Now, with autism, and this is my next, like I said, area of research I'm gonna plunge into.
42:22So this is from a very cursory look so far based on the genetic component.
42:27But I, with, with the range of neurodiversity that you would see on the autism spectrum.
42:34What happens is there are very many things that are beneficial about some of the gene codings in there, you know, creativity and focus and things like that.
42:48Where it becomes again that mismatch word, is that where you are with the genetic coding makes it hard for you to exist and easily in the current environment, the current school system, for example, or job environment or whatever.
43:05So with whatever it is, the goal is to try to make your genes function as well as possible and allow you to function in the way that you most want.
43:18In the environment that you're in.
43:20So it's always good to clean up detox, always, always, always, it's always good to eat well, not chew on caffeine, you know, for like 24/7 kind of a deal.
43:29Reducing things like refined grains and sugar is always helpful.
43:34Because we know that that impacts metabolic health.
43:36Now, does that mean you would never have that?
43:38No, of course not.
43:39If you can tolerate it and you're not addicted to it, then, you know, having those sometimes things because sometimes food is more than just nourishment and celebration and community and things like that.
43:50But with any of those instances you mentioned that with autism or with the autoimmune disorders, it would be really peeling apart the different things.
43:59And then I talked with the client.
44:01I'm like, OK, is that bothering you?
44:04Like, is that?
44:05Making it easier or harder.
44:07This is how this gene is expressing.
44:09Are you OK with that?
44:11Would it be better if we could dampen it a bit so that you, you know, cause I mean, cortisol is great.
44:17Like I said earlier, like, man, I can get focused and I can just, you know, plow through something.
44:23But long term paying a price for living at that level.
44:27And so likewise with someone who has a gene coating that is, you know, not producing enough dopamine, yeah, it helps you to be this and this and this, but you're paying a price for it this way.
44:38So would it be good if we help support you, get some extra thyrazine, some of the cold factors, the B vitamins that help produce dopamine, get you doing jumping jacks, you know, a couple times a day, 5 minutes, you can elevate your dopamine.
44:51So with that, you can function better in the environment that you're choosing to be in.
44:57So yeah, it's really personalized and not labeling anything as, oh, that's, that's gonna be a problem.
45:03It's like, is that a problem for you?
45:06You know, or can we tweak it so that you keep the retain the essence of how this gene is helping you express, but let it be less problematic in these circumstances, that kind of thing.
45:19I love that way of looking at it.
45:21That's a really beautiful way of working with the client.
45:23And also, yeah, there's benefits to a lot of these things like we were talking about too, that's really cool.
45:29And so, I know we don't have a ton of time, but you were mentioning all of the different categories that you and your partner look at, and one of them was reproductive health, and as someone who went through 7 years in fertility, and had to do all the the fertility treatments for years, you know, that.
45:46It just kind of makes me perk my ears up when I can learn something else about it.
45:50So I'm curious.
45:52I mean, everything you know about it, but no, no, I'm just kidding.
45:56I'm just, I'm curious about, you know, gene expression when it comes to reproductive health.
46:02Sure.
46:03So nutritionists or social work workers diagnose or treat.
46:07So this is all just information, educational information, you obviously would go to your healthcare practitioner.
46:13What what we do find that's interesting is that with the that category, we can look at several different estrogen genes,, testosterone genes, and then we also look at thyroid genes.
46:28So even those are not technically rep reproductive health genes.
46:32, it's interesting the role that thyroid plays in lots of different things, OK?
46:37So we can look at,, and see if there is too much or too little estrogen being produced.
46:43We can look at in what form it is might be converted to, is it, is it, is more of it being converted to the 20H, the protective form is more of it being converted to the 40H.
46:55the less protective, more cancer prone type of form.
46:58We look at all of that.
47:00Often with infertility, I have, believe it or not, there is detoxification,, issues going on.
47:09There's a, there's a gene that is called the COT gene.
47:13It's a really cool gene, mind you, they're all pretty cool, but it is one of the genes that helps in degrading.
47:20,, lots of things, dopamine,, phytoestrogens that are coming in from outside eno estrogens, our own estrogen.
47:29And if there's something going on there where it's either breaking down, you, you don't have enough estrogen because it's too fast and it's firing it out, so we can look.
47:39Get the different things.
47:40We don't look at any progesterone genes yet in the software that we use.
47:46But we do get some hints as to where there might be issues going on.
47:50We can also look at, like, often people are not eating enough carbohydrates for their body type.
47:58And so they might be, or they might be not eating enough food in general.
48:03I find a lot of women don't eat enough.
48:05And so a body will slow down, not going to carry a baby to term, not going to produce a baby if there are not enough certain levels of nutrients in the body.
48:13So we would come at it from a lot of different angles,.
48:17We also usually do a detoxification, sometimes use some homeopathic, homeopathics to make sure that cycles are happening properly according to moon cycle.
48:29So there's a, well, a few different things we would do there, but definitely the genetic component can play a factor in that, yeah.
48:37Yeah, thanks for explaining that.
48:38You know, every time I have a guest on that could give some hint as to what was going on, I'll just, I'll tell you just what happened with me, and you can just see if there's anything that sparks from your, your expertise.
48:51So I do have Hashimoto's,, but what was happening was We did IVF a few times, and there's different checkpoints, right?
49:00There's how many eggs you get, how many fertilize, how many go to the 6 day blastocyst, all that.
49:06So we were like killing it for all of them.
49:08We were doing better than average.
49:11And then the last step is testing the,, testing the chromosomes and every single one of them was chromosomally abnormal every single time, and they all had different abnormalities every time.
49:26So, I don't know, and our doctor said he's never seen that before.
49:30So like I've not heard of that either.
49:33Now you can make me start, start pondering what could possibly have been happening there.
49:38Wow.
49:39But and see, here's the thing, I, I unexplained infertility, that's just bullshit to me, right?
49:44Everything has an explanation, right?
49:46Everything, just because they don't know it, it's unexplained to them.
49:49So I'm just on this quest to figure it out.
49:52So if you happen to come across the answer, you'll have to let me know.
49:55I, I absolutely will.
49:56And I think here's the, here's a little caveat in there.
50:00On this quest for information, which I'm right up there with you from online looking for all this stuff.
50:08When you said there's no unexplained stuff, I, I agree with you.
50:11Like there has to be some foundational reason for this.
50:14I also know that it can drive us crazy trying to find it sometimes.
50:20And so sometimes it's like, you might just need to put something to rest for a bit until either new information comes out or whatever, so that we are not living in perpetual stress as we are trying to find the answer.
50:33It's always this tension of, you know, this, but this, I I, I'm not very comfortable with unknown.
50:41I like to know everything.
50:42And part of my spiritual journey has been growing more comfortable with not knowing all the answers.
50:49I'm not there yet, but I'm getting there.
50:52I was gonna say that's the pastor and the social worker and you coming out.
50:57And, and yeah, totally.
50:59I mean, the spiritual side of me is like, I had a soul contract.
51:03My son is my son for a reason.
51:05This was all part of my journey, lessons I'm meant to learn, like, I'm there with you.
51:09But that truth seeker in me is like, I want to learn and I want knowledge and I want to know.
51:14But yes, I totally, I totally appreciate what you're saying there.
51:18Yeah.
51:19Yeah.
51:19It's, it's a delicate balance.
51:21I don't get it right every day.
51:23Sometimes a lot of days I don't, but I'm working on it.
51:26Totally.
51:26, wow, this was such a great conversation.
51:30An hour flew by.
51:31I am so grateful for your time.
51:33If you ever want to come back on, I'd love to have you back on the show.
51:36We had all these notes of things to talk about that we didn't even touch.
51:39So,, but you know, let's, Chris.
51:44You'll get your DNA done and we'll come back and explain to people how it impacted you.
51:49How's that?
51:50That's that's amazing.
51:52I love that idea.
51:53And, and I also want to hear your explanation on that next episode about how you take this back to ancient philosophies and different religions and faiths and, and yeah, so we've got a lot more to talk about next time.
52:06, but I'm sure people are just dying to get their DNA done and work with you.
52:12So tell people how they can work with you and find you and all that.
52:15Sure.
52:15So website is Inbalance LM stands for lifestyle Management Inbalancelm.com.
52:22Right at the very top, it just says, are you interested in personalized nutrition?
52:25Just click on it, gives you some options free infographic, a little free self-check you can take, and then there's a both a one-off,, just 1.5 kind of consult.
52:35Or you can do a full,, 12 week program, which we just started again last week for the geeks who want to deep dive.
52:43OK.
52:43So those are all available on there.
52:45And for getting your raw data done, the two forms that I can use in the software.
52:51One is 23andMe.
52:53They have a big sale on right now, but you And then when you're airing it, they always have sales on.
52:57And if you're cautious with 23andME's security measures, then I recommend DNA allure.com.
53:04I'm not affiliated with them, but they can ship anywhere FedEx does, and they are very secure.
53:09We'll delete your data right after.
53:11So you want yourself or your children done.
53:13I feel like it's much more secure that way.
53:16Yeah.
53:16All right.
53:16Well, thank you so much.
53:18I really appreciate your time.
53:19If you're listening to this, please like, share, subscribe, send this to someone you think could use it.
53:24I think everyone could use this information,, especially because like we were talking about, it's cutting edge, it's new, and let's spread the word.
53:32So thank you all so much.
53:34Have a great rest of your day, Brenda, have a great rest of your day too.
53:37Thank you all.