0:00Hi, everyone.
0:01Welcome back to the Change Your Mind podcast.
0:03I'm your host, Kris Ashley.
0:05I explore the intersection between personal development, spirituality and science.
0:09I'm really excited for my guests today.
0:11We have a dream interpreter with us.
0:13I have so many questions myself.
0:15So it's gonna be a really fun episode.
0:17First couple of quick announcements.
0:19If you head over to the links in my show notes, you'll find a link for my book, Change Mind to Change Your Reality.
0:25It was endorsed by John Gray, Bob Doyle Michael Beckwith Marcy Shimoff, Anita Marjai.
0:31Go check it out.
0:33You'll also find links to my free workshops, free downloads off my website courses, coaching ways to connect and of course all of my guest links as well.
0:43because I think you're gonna want to connect with this one.
0:45Hi, I'm Kris.
0:47When I was younger, I went through trauma that caused me to feel broken and lost.
0:51But my life changed after I had a spiritual awakening.
0:55Since then, I've dedicated my life to studying and learning from masters all around the world that have helped me to create a life of fulfillment and abundance beyond my wildest dreams.
1:04Now I'm dedicated to sharing everything I've learned so that you don't have to suffer for decades.
1:09Like I did, I've seen people's lives completely transform and I share it all right here.
1:17All right.
1:17So with me today, I have Doctor Michael Lennox.
1:21So doctor Michael Lennox is a psychologist, astrologer and expert in dreams and dream interpretation.
1:28He teaches classes in self investigation to a worldwide audience and is the host of the weekly podcast, Conscious embodiment Astrology and Dreams.
1:38He is also the author of Lewin's Complete D Dictionary of Dreams.
1:43Leon's Little Book of Dreams, dream sight and psychic dreamer.
1:47So welcome Doctor Michael.
1:49I'm so happy you're here.
1:50It's so great to be here.
1:51Thank you, Kris.
1:52Yeah.
1:53You know, like I said, I'm really excited this episode, but I always start my episodes the same way and that is by asking my guest what their origin story is.
2:03So what led you on this path?
2:05What?
2:06Yeah, I know.
2:07I think we're going to go way back with this one.
2:09We are you, are you able to interpret dreams?
2:12Yes.
2:12It really does start in childhood and funnily enough.
2:15I'm going to tell the actual, the whole story because it starts with the show album of the Broadway show Fiddler on the roof, but that's literally how I became a dream interpreter.
2:27Well, there's a dream sequence in Fiddler on the roof.
2:30It's a very vibrant musical theater piece of, of, of, of, of, of material.
2:34It's like 7, 12 minute a stage thing and it's a dream.
2:38He has a dream.
2:39He tells his wife and he wakes up at the beginning of the thing on the album.
2:44There's a little bit of dialogue where he's like,, he's waking up and she's like, what, what, what, and he goes, I have this terrible dream and she says to him on the album, tell me what you dreamed and I'll tell you what it meant.
2:58So I heard that 1000 times as a kid because it was one of the two broadway shows that my mother had the album of in her collection.
3:05So I heard that idea spoken of so many times that when my mother got her master's in social work and Freud's interpretation of dreams showed up on her bookshelf when I was 15, you could bet I read that book.
3:21Now, I don't know what I got out of Freud at 15, but I certainly understood that dreams could be looked at.
3:28He used the word analysis, they could be analyzed for meaning and that meaning would lead you to unconscious material that would be exposed by looking at the dreams.
3:37And so I took these two sort of ideas into high school and you're standing around in the hallway and someone says, oh my God, I had the craziest dream last night, I remembered Golda and I remembered Freud and I would say, tell me what you dreamed and I'll tell you what it meant.
3:53Now, I'm not sure what came out of my mouth at 1617 and 18 years old.
3:59But I know now that I have a gift, I have a gift for hearing a story that a dream is told in the language of symbols.
4:09I listen to the symbols and I tell myself the story about the story and I can do this very fast, right?
4:16So I have an ability to hear the universality in the dream imagery and an ability to not project my own stuff onto your dream.
4:26So like if you have a dream about your mother, I'm not going to be talking about my mother when I'm interpreting your dream.
4:32And this has just happened such that in, as a teenager, kids responded, they got excited by the intuitive information that came out of my mouth.
4:41So I simply followed that bread crumb all the way into my life.
4:46And that led me here.
4:47But it started as a teenager.
4:49That's amazing.
4:50And you know, if I was gonna say any musical would have brought you here.
4:54The amazing, like I've been thinking about that play all week knowing that you're coming on the show.
5:02Oh, that's so funny.
5:03I love it.
5:03Yeah.
5:04Yeah.
5:04No, that's a good one.
5:05OK.
5:06So is it, is, it, it sounds like it's about recognizing symbols within dream symbolism.
5:11And from there you can kind of pull a story out.
5:14Is that what I'm?
5:15Yeah, absolutely.
5:15That's a great way of articulating it.
5:18The idea that symbols and dreams might have meaning connects to what that symbol or thing is or does, right?
5:26So, like I'm holding a pen right.
5:27There's a pen in front of me on my desk.
5:29If I dream about a pen, then I'm definitely dreaming about what the pen does, what its use, what its essence is, right?
5:36So it's about communicating my thoughts in a permanent way.
5:39If I have a pencil on my desk, that's a different symbol.
5:42Same thing it's used in essence is I write, I express, but pencil write is erasable.
5:48Pen is not right there.
5:50You have a meaning about the thing itself that would be different if your dream was about a pen or your dream was about a pencil.
5:58And so everything that appears in the dream, every symbol, every animal, every image, every setting can have an universal interpretation and that interpretation, its universality is generated by what the thing is, what it does or what everybody would agree upon you.
6:16You know, if millions and millions of people all think that Scarlett Johansson is a beautiful woman and a fabulous movie star.
6:23She's gonna show up in people's dreams as a kind of Aphrodite image because we all agree about her sort of, you know, holding that energy.
6:31So that's what's happening in dreams the stories are just symbols that have meaning.
6:36So how did you learn all of these symbols or did you kind of come up with some of them on your own?
6:41Like if someone dreams of a certain type of animal, for instance, you know, where, where did that come from?
6:46Did you just kind of?
6:48Yeah.
6:49So here's, here's where I think it would come from in my sort of personal experience of say, listening to a dream that has like a hawk in it.
6:59I know that hawks fly high that they hover, that they have this great vantage point by being able to, to glide above, you know, hot cliffs and ride banks of air and they have this great vantage point.
7:10So I know that about hawks because I've watched a hawk or two, right?
7:14So then if you look up like a animal totem, meaning those meanings are gonna be based on the quality, the behavior, the style, the timbre of that animal.
7:25And so the fact that I can do what I do isn't a function that like, I know something that you don't know, it's that I can do it quickly.
7:35Ok.
7:36I could lead you from not thinking you don't know what something means to coming up with what's universal if I just guided your thoughts about, well, what does that thing do?
7:46What's its use?
7:47And you'd be like, oh, that makes so much sense.
7:49Michael, the glass is really a symbol of my ability to draw life force towards me.
7:56So, if the glass is broken, the dream is about my inability to self man, the care that I need.
8:03Right.
8:03So, the idea isn't that I know that and you don't, it's that what might take you three or four minutes to air quotes?
8:11Figure out I'm processing at a quantum speed.
8:15It's just Fastness, not knowledge.
8:18Yeah.
8:18It's like, it's like you can just read it quicker.
8:21That's right.
8:22It's like I don't speak any other language but let but English, well, I, I speak English in but I know a lot of people who are Multilingual and I will tell you that my experience of knowing this universal language reminds me of what people who I know who speak more than one language fluently experience that it's really an instantaneous ability to shift from one to the other.
8:48And that's happening for me as I'm listening to a dream, it's faster than I can even perceive.
8:53Very cool.
8:55OK.
8:55So I'm gonna ask you the hard question.
8:58What do you think dreams are?
9:01There are so many things?
9:04Yeah.
9:05So let's talk about a couple of things that we know that they are from a brain structure place.
9:10We know that we are reviewing everything that happened during the day, during rem sleep dreaming.
9:16That's why we so often dream about things that we experienced during the waking life day that preceded the night of sleep because the brain is in fact needing to review all of the data it collected during the day and saying, OK, this is important.
9:30Let's make that a memory, this is unimportant.
9:32Let's just shove that into the abyss of the unconscious.
9:34So that's a function that's happening in dreams that we now know about scientifically, the scientists would tell you.
9:41Therefore, dreams have no mystical meaning, but that's bullshit.
9:44The science, right?
9:46So we know we're forming memory in rem sleep while dreams are happening.
9:51So in some ways, dreams are a function of the many chaotic visual re experiences of the day's material.
10:01OK.
10:02Another thing that's happening in the brain during rem sleep is that well cells poop, all cells poop, they they, they make metabolic waste, they take in fuel, they burn it and then they chip some stuff out in the body below the blood brain barrier.
10:19We have a lymphatic system that just collects all this stuff and gets rid of it.
10:23But the lymphatic system can't work above the blood brain barrier.
10:27So the brain does something really cool.
10:30All of the brain cells shrink a little bit and and all of what what happens during.
10:36So the brain cells shrink and then cerebral spinal fluid fills the space in between.
10:41And when they regain their shape, they push the mela metabolic way into the cerebral spinal fluid in between brain cells which then funnel down into the spinal column and go into the body and are taken away by the lymphatic system that I didn't know that crazy.
10:59So that's happening in dreams in Rem.
11:03So the rem cycle itself is like flushing the toilet in your brain.
11:09So those are functional.
11:11They're not mystical, they're not psychological.
11:14So the idea that we get from Freud and then Jung and the world of psychology is that dreams are taking us into the unconscious and in the unconscious is where all of the demons are.
11:27That's where we're fearful.
11:29That's where we're enraged.
11:30That's where we're terrified of death.
11:32That's where all of our darker human qualities exist and live and are vibrant.
11:38Our conscious awareness is like I'm good.
11:41All is well, I'm living life, right?
11:43So what we do when we go into dreams is we visit the places in our psyche where we're terrified where we're saying no to life, where we're enraged with things where we're in deep grief.
11:56And then we wake up the next morning more capable of meeting life on life's terms on a Tuesday because we process the stress of Monday in our dream state.
12:08So on a certain level, just like we're clearing out metabolic waste, I think we're also clearing out psychic waste by letting our darker feelings be visited by our awareness.
12:21Sometimes I think our darker feelings are like eight year old Children at the pool, right?
12:27Diving in going, look ma watch me like they just want to be noticed or seen or be or dealt with.
12:37So we go into our dream state and we breathe some love and light into our unconscious shadow material so that we can wake up and have it, not grab us and run us and push us into, you know, behaviors that, that are being driven by unconscious material.
12:53So I think we get wiser but such an amazing safety mechanism of our bodies, right?
12:59So it's like I'm going to help you process some of these while you're on.
13:03So you don't have to deal with it.
13:05Yeah, I mean, that's actually really incredible that our bodies can do, you know Kris in, in my 30 whatever years of doing this.
13:13I don't think I've ever heard anybody articulate what you just articulated.
13:16Like that's actually a brilliant idea that there's actually a sort of and you know, me, you know, a thing happening there that protects us by letting us act out those things.
13:30Freud, certainly thought that on some level.
13:32Yeah.
13:33Ok.
13:33So I have to ask.
13:34So I've, I've had certain dreams of my father passed away this year and my dog passed away this year and I've had some dreams that I swear are visitations and I'm curious what your thoughts on these are.
13:47Well, first of all, well, hold on, hold on.
13:49So it kind of crosses the line into like lucid dreaming.
13:51So like, I, I'll give you an example of one with my dad, we were, we were in Hawaii together at this hotel we've stayed at several times and we were just kind of sitting there and talking and I was just kind of like enjoying being in his presence and like all of a sudden it snapped into my mind that he had died and, and I just said to him, you know, I miss you so much and he was like, I, you do.
14:14And he gave me a big hug and he's like, but I'll be dropping in from time to time and, and I've had several dreams like that with my dog too where it's like, I've had this moment of clarity where it's like, I know they've gone and I've had this interaction.
14:26So I'm curious what your take on those kind of dreams are, are they visitations?
14:29Absolutely.
14:30And how you know that a visitation is a visitation is the simplicity of the experience.
14:39Dreams are chaotic in nature at best.
14:41Right.
14:41There we flip around from scenario to scenario and then possibly, you know, wildly shifting landscapes.
14:48Visitation, dreams take place in one singular or simple setting.
14:54So like your dream in the hotel in the resort is like it wasn't like you were then in a clown car and then up the hill and then, you know, we you were in the one place and then there's always a simple conveyance of whatever wants to be set, right?
15:10And in this case, his message was I'm here and I will drop in from time to time.
15:15That's classic visitation conveyance.
15:19Often it's not verbal and it's just felt as all is.
15:22Well, I love you or something, some felt experience.
15:26But even with you and your dad in that dream, which had like more words than might be typical in a visitation dream.
15:32It was the kind of things that get expressed in a visit, a very simple sense of message.
15:41And that's how, you know, it's a visitation dream and they feel different.
15:46Didn't that feel different than other?
15:49I was like, no, that was my dad visiting me.
15:51I mean, thank you for validating that I appreciate that.
15:57You know, it's, it's like, I wish I could ask you like, how did that happen?
16:00What's the science behind that?
16:01But of course, that's something we probably won't know until well and, and the scientists would say that doesn't exist that it's not possible and the mystics know the truth of it, right?
16:12And, and, and if, if there's anything to be said about like, well, how does that happen?
16:18The simplest thing that we know in the mystical realm, forget about the scientific realm.
16:22The part of our perception that gets us through the world is our thinking mind.
16:28It's like the narrator in, in astrology, it's mercury, which is not the sun, which is the center of our awareness, right?
16:34So our thinking and our perception is not our centered awareness, right?
16:41Our centered awareness knows who we are.
16:43And our thinking is just commenting on that all of the time.
16:46But that thinking mind interferes with subtle perceptions.
16:51That is why we call it the still small voice of intuition because it's not loud, what's loud, the narrating mind that's talking to us always about who and what and when we are, that mind goes to sleep, when we go to sleep, that mind is the limiting perceiver in us.
17:09It's necessary to have that mind.
17:12We can't navigate this realm without it.
17:14And it limits us, it tells us we're solid when we're not, it tells us we're separate when we're not.
17:20But it also gets us across the street looking both ways.
17:23So we don't get hit by a car.
17:24Yeah, it's the ego, right?
17:26And you can't function without it, but it isn't allowing perceptions that are multidimensional.
17:34But the minute we go to sleep, so does that limiting rational mind?
17:38And then we're avail for perceiving things.
17:42The idea that sleep is like some deep unconscious state like like Propofol like we would just be out is that's a myth.
17:49We're not out, we're just asleep, but we're fully present and available just in a different state.
17:55So we are more conscious than we know that we are because we feel unconscious because we're asleep, but we're there, we're present, we're vibrant, we're in aliveness and the rational mind isn't there keeping us separate and limited.
18:11Isn't it crazy?
18:12That, for what is it, like a third of our lives, we just go off into these astral realms or whatever we do and reboot and recharge and all animals do it.
18:23It's, it's just crazy.
18:24Which is crazy.
18:25Right.
18:26Well, and I get that you are somebody like me who wants to appreciate both sides of things, the mystical and the scientific and, and,, you know, science just, you know, is way behind the mysticism.
18:40Yeah, totally, totally.
18:42But it's also a really cool time to be alive when there is things like quantum physics and, you know, neuroscience and epigenetics that are, that are starting to validate things that these mystics have been saying for eons, right?
18:54It's, it's really cool.
18:56OK.
18:57So here's another one for you.
18:59I've heard that some dreams.
19:01Are you looking into an alternative timeline that another version of you is living?
19:06So what are your thoughts on that?
19:08You know, I'll say yes, absolutely.
19:12On the one hand, and on the other hand, I just want to say this, this idea of timelines is very popular these days, this idea that we are switching timeliness and I'm not, maybe it's that I'm old.
19:24I don't entirely understand like what that means from like, how do I use that information?
19:32How do I use the idea that we have shifting timeline?
19:35So I wanna start with just a little bit of a like we're not ignorance.
19:41Exactly.
19:41But it kind of like, well, I don't really know what that is, but I do have a belief that in dreams that there is the potential to visit other consciousnesses, other worlds, other domains.
19:57So I believe that unequivocally.
19:59So if you say to me this idea of visiting another timeline where you're playing out some other thing, well, that's not my world.
20:07I mean, like you don't say that I go, yes, yes.
20:09I, I know what that means.
20:10Like I'm like, well, what is that?
20:11I'm, I'm a 60 year old, you know, part.
20:16But I do believe in the idea that we drop into other, you fill in the blank so that whatever that means for you, that if I have a dream in a world where I am and I'm in a group setting and it seems like a world that seems to work and, and have agency in and of itself, even though it's not my life, I actually dream about this a lot.
20:38Like I dream that I'm in community a lot that, that aren't my communities.
20:43Why not have the notion be that those places that I visit exist?
20:50I have often believed that we go to crazy places in dreams that I think might exist on other planets and other places in the universe.
21:00that every, like I've had this mystical thought, like, what if every dream is taking us to some place that has some agency and existence somewhere, I believe that's possible.
21:11Yeah.
21:11And it's, it's so I did too.
21:13Thank you for your response.
21:15And I think it's so fascinating because I think dreams do all of these things that we've talked about, right?
21:20They, they help you.
21:22Like there's definitely those dreams where you're like, ok, I was just reliving and processing the day or like, oh, that was definitely my father visiting me or?
21:30Wow, that was like you said, like I was with people doing things that felt very realistic in and it was not on earth, it was not in his lifetime.
21:40So it's, it's so interesting that they can have all of these different functions.
21:45You know, the idea that that our brains while we are awake are processing data and filling in a lot of blank space.
21:55We know from a scientific perspective that what we are perceiving is one tiny sliver of what we're actually in energetically in terms of light and frequency and vibration.
22:08And I'm talking to physics here, I'm not talking to woo woo, right.
22:11That we can't perceive it all.
22:13And so there's got to be something about that quietude of the perceiving mind being asleep that in fact does open us up multi dimensionally that I'd, I'd sign up for that as true.
22:26Totally.
22:27Yeah, I think what's the number?
22:28It's like you, you can only see 0.0035% of the visible light spectrum.
22:33So what if it's 99% of your That's right.
22:36So think of it at the same.
22:38Well, you know, this is another way that astrology helps me contextualize something like this where the sun is burning brightly saying I'm all that in a bag of chips.
22:46Meanwhile, the moon who represents the unconscious is saying my domain is as big as all of outer space dude, like I'm, I'm tapping into places where your life becomes a dot That's us.
22:58Our conscious awareness feels like everything.
23:01But the much vas part of our existence is unknowable and unconscious.
23:08And the dream state is where we are more connected to all that unknowable than certainly than the waking state.
23:16Yeah.
23:17Yeah.
23:17I, I feel like I've heard it said that when you're dreaming is when you're actually awake and then this life, the dream.
23:24But I, I, I love that.
23:27It's a beautiful idea.
23:30Yeah, that I think fits something that I have often felt in my own mystical pursuits where I do feel more alive and whole and embodied when I'm in a pursuit in that direction than I ever do elsewhere.
23:47Unfortunately, my work, I get to do that like in my work is I'm like holding space, I'm channeling wisdom.
23:53I it, it becomes an experience where, you know, I get to be more in my divine nature than my human nature.
24:01But those experiences I have always felt more real to me than the mundane three dimensional world.
24:09Absolutely.
24:10Yeah.
24:11Absolutely.
24:13Ok.
24:13So, I am pregnant right now.
24:17Fabulous.
24:19Congratulate you in like a week.
24:19You're like my last interview for a while.
24:21, but talk about vivid dreams, like, like what's, what's, what is that about?
24:29Because my dreams are like movies.
24:31They have like a beginning, a middle and end a whole plot.
24:34Like it's, it's chemicals.
24:36You are, you are filled with enormous amounts of hormone and neurotransmitter and all kinds of chemicals that enrich every experience that you have.
24:47Like, isn't it accurate that your emotional life is more vibrant and, and, and up and down when you're pregnant?
24:54Oh, yeah, I've already tried once today.
24:56Right.
24:57Ok.
24:57So right there like that idea is the same idea as the dream intensification.
25:04You're crying more readily because you're filled with hormones that shift your emotions.
25:09You know, chemicals in the brain are emotions, neurotransmitter creates experience of sensation that we call feelings.
25:17So, if you are filled with an enormous amount of, you know, what is ultimately natural is not the right word, but a typical amount of chemicals in your system, it's gonna make you overly emotional as you just said.
25:31And that same sort of overly something something experience is making your dreams more vivid.
25:39All right.
25:39So there's that, that's like a good scientific explanation.
25:42I appreciate that.
25:43And I've heard everything is, everything is over the top.
25:47I've even, you know,, do you sleep with your baby daddy?
25:52I do.
25:53Does he his dreams ever getting more intense as he's, that was actually gonna be one of my next questions is he never remembers his dreams.
26:02Like, what about people that never remember their dreams?
26:05Well, you know, there's we all dream, right?
26:09If you weren't dreaming, you'd be dead like that.
26:11That we know the dreaming is a function of, you know, keeping the brain going.
26:16We sleep for our brains, not for our bodies.
26:18The body is a machine that can go forever.
26:20The body does not read rest.
26:22In fact, when we feel tired, it's not the body saying I'm tired, the brain is the tired one.
26:28An interesting thought that makes sense though.
26:31There are studies that verified this, there, there's, there's studies that show that there's been ways that I think military studies did some things where they were able to put the sleep mechanism off, like turn the sleeping off without speeding someone up, not with amphetamine, but with some, and they found that they could go and go and go and go and go.
26:48But their capacity to perceive and use their mind was, you know, in the toilet, but the body was ready to go and go on the second day, third day, fourth day.
26:59So when, when we are in that dream state, this is one way to sort of like appreciate it.
27:09Dreams are very visual.
27:11And so we will often think have you ever woken up in the middle of the night and thought, oh, I'll never forget this dream.
27:17And then of course, you can't remember it the next day.
27:19Yeah.
27:20Well, because we are visual people in waking life and the, the the cortex in the brain that perceives what the eyes are perceiving is not operating.
27:31When we're sleeping, our eyes are closed and we are asleep, we're perceiving a visual sensation with other parts of the brain.
27:40So when we wake up and certainly when we open our eyes, we shut all of that amorphous, subtle underbelly experience of dream perception just goes away.
27:52So for many people, there's never been a long window that stays open between the dream perception and the waking life perception.
28:02So you can think of that as just something that's part of somebody's makeup.
28:06Some people are wired in such a way that it's a little bit more fluid and some people are wired in such a way that it's like a hard stop sleeping waking.
28:16I don't remember anything.
28:18Anybody can increase the amount of dreams they remember with a couple of little steps.
28:25One is you gotta have the intention, intention is everything.
28:28There's a lot of power in the brain when we say we do want something and the brain will start making stuff happen.
28:34So we gotta have the intention or what that might look like is creating your bedtime routine is a little more sacred than random being a little bit more serious about it and then asking either in a written form in your dream journal or a prayerful form, you know, to your like, hey, hi yourself.
28:50Let's have some dreams tonight.
28:51I wanna remember my dreams in the morning.
28:54King has to be there.
28:55Second thing is you gotta have the recording device nearby, right?
28:59You wanna circumnavigate that idea of, I'll remember this dream or getting up, you know, you wanna be able to reach for your dream journal or your recording device.
29:08But the third piece that is maybe not something that people would typically think of that I think is incredibly important is you wanna go to that dream journal and write something even if you haven't remembered something.
29:22Hm.
29:22Might, you might write it like I don't remember anything from last night and then wait a moment and then move on this third act of engaging the body in behavior that's designed to connect you to a dream memory can in fact increase your brain's ability to keep that window open a little bit longer.
29:43And I've heard this reported back to me as working for people that particular added act.
29:49I love those tips.
29:50It's kind of like starting to work the muscle a little bit.
29:52That's right.
29:53And it is a muscle.
29:54That's a perfect way of describing it.
29:55I think it's a muscle and some people have it organically so they don't ever think about, oh, I gotta work on remembering my dreams and other people aren't and that's just a wiring thing.
30:06It's just a style of, of human being, a human.
30:11Yeah.
30:12You know, the whole, the whole thing about setting the intention and everything made me think of lucid dreaming.
30:17So I'd love to hear your thoughts on lucid dreaming, which is another fascinating thing.
30:21You keep saying waking life and I keep thinking about that movie about lucid dreaming, which is fantastic.
30:27I don't.
30:27Have you seen that?
30:28I haven't, do I need to find it?
30:30Waking life.
30:31Yeah.
30:31So it's, it's animated.
30:33Oh, it's a really cool film.
30:34It's animated in all different styles of animation and it's the first half of it gets like super deep and philosophical, but it's all about lucid dreaming.
30:44I just wrote it down.
30:45It's, yeah, it's pretty old at this point.
30:47It's probably like 2030 years old.
30:49But it's, it's, I will check it out and it goes like deep and, but anyway, so that whole thing is like about lucid dreaming.
30:57Yeah, talk to me about lucid dreaming.
30:58I know some people like teach themselves how to do it.
31:01It's very popular to study it to figure out how to do it more.
31:08Which is interesting.
31:08I will, I want to start by saying I have never been drawn to increase my lucid dreaming.
31:14So I've never done some of the things that I'm gonna talk to you about, but I, you know, this has been my world for decades.
31:19So I know about this world, I've just not I have not chosen to increase the experience that I've had and I've had one or two experiences that blew my mind.
31:30So let me start.
31:31Yeah.
31:31No, I absolutely will.
31:32Let me start by just talking about like what is a lucid dream?
31:34So at the lowest level, lucid dreaming is just becoming aware that you're dreaming while you're dreaming.
31:40This is very common.
31:41It's not very exciting or sexy.
31:43It's just you're dreaming and you're in the clown car and you're going up the hill and it's going backwards and you go huh I think I'm dreaming.
31:50That's a lucid dream.
31:52No more than that.
31:54Simple, simple.
31:55That's a lucid dream.
31:57So there are layers or levels of deeper ways of lucid dreaming.
32:04I've had this dream and I've heard people talk about a kind of lucid dream where you're fully aware that you're dreaming.
32:09Now.
32:09It's not like an idea that slips in, but that a person can be like, oh I'm in a dream landscape and there's movement happening and a person might be able to guide the movement like, oh turn, right, turn left.
32:21I've had this experience a couple of times and I've heard it reported that it's a different kind of dream experience.
32:27It doesn't, it's, it isn't always a storyline that's being told.
32:32It's about the movement or the sensation of movement.
32:35And the idea that I'm dreaming, I'm not sure where I am, but I can move and I can like guide myself to move.
32:41Right.
32:41I can guide myself to move left.
32:42And I've heard that as a kind of lucid dreaming, I'm gonna jump up to the high level of lucid dreaming now because I want to talk about an experience that I've had twice.
32:54I once had a dream where I was sitting on my couch and I was as awake as I am right now.
33:05I mean, I, I have to say I have to repeat myself just so that I can, I was awake as I am right now.
33:13And I'm sitting in my living room in my little apartment.
33:16I lived in Silver Lake California at the time in Los Angeles and I'm like holy Mother of God.
33:22I am dreaming.
33:23I'm asleep.
33:25I'm asleep right in that room.
33:26I pointed to the bedroom.
33:28I am, I am having a lucid dream.
33:31I it was extraordinary.
33:34And then I woke up and or at some point I woke up, right?
33:38But I can't even convey to you the power of that feeling of being wide awake, knowing that I was asleep and dreaming right there alone was a mystical moment of wow, we're kind of like God.
33:58Like this is like we are so powerfully creative.
34:02Like that experience was as powerful as a, as a, you know, plant medicine diet that, that I've done.
34:08So now I know why people chase it.
34:10It's like, oh my God.
34:11I, that's an experience worth chasing.
34:13I had a second dream that was similar.
34:16Not quite as sharp and vivid.
34:18Everything had a sepia tone, like everything looked a little brownish, but I was still alert awake in my embodiment.
34:27I was at a park and I was walking up to a picnic table where there were like five guys sitting around a picnic table again as awake as I am now.
34:35But in a kind of like a filter on the light.
34:39And I walked up to the guys at the table and I just said, you guys know that we're all like dreaming, right?
34:44And they were like, yeah, come on in, sit down like they were aware of it too.
34:48That's they were aware of.
34:50I'm telling you that there ain't nothing.
34:52If this were the inquisition, I'd be like set me on fire because I'm telling you, I believe that I was in a space in multidimensional territory where five other men were also having an experience of lucid dreaming and they existed somewhere on planet Earth in bodies and that the dream that b so those experiences were outrageous to me.
35:14So I can understand why people might chase the idea of a lucid dream.
35:19So how this works if you were like go buy a book or take a class or a workshop on this, the technique that I've heard used the most taps directly into something I've already talked to you about, which is the processing of daily material to turn some of it into memory and get rid of the rest of it where we review everything that's happened during the day, every time we go to sleep, right?
35:46So that's a happening thing.
35:48The lucid dream aficionado is being told, look at your hands during the day, just hold your hands up in front of your face and look at them, just take them in and then you know, move on, do that all day long.
36:05And eventually you're gonna see your hands in your dream and you're gonna know that you're lucid dreaming and that's gonna open you up to what's possible if you keep chasing the idea of lucid dreaming.
36:17Well, that makes total sense to me because you are in fact, reviewing everything from your waking life during your dream state.
36:26And so if you put an image during your waking life constantly in front of your eyes, eventually, you are gonna come upon that image while you're forming the short term memory and then it's gonna trigger something that happens within the dream state that allows you to know you're lucid dreaming and a little bit of your consciousness will wake up.
36:44The idea of that is if you keep practicing it and follow that breadcrumb trail, you might get to places where your dreams are richer in the lucid kind of way that I have no experience of.
36:57So I can't speak into it.
36:59Like I've just given you all my wisdom about lucid dreaming and we've hit the edges.
37:03I have no more.
37:04I can, you know, teach about that.
37:05But it makes sense to me that there be a technique that taps right into something that the brain is doing.
37:12But that reminds the dreamer that they're having a lucid experience and that if that gets woken up, who knows what's possible down the line, it's just like meditating.
37:20It's a skill.
37:20It's a muscle.
37:21You keep practicing it, you get better at it.
37:24Yeah.
37:24That totally makes sense.
37:25And that the idea of having a trigger like that, something so simple that you're gonna see that.
37:30I, I totally think and thank you for going down that path.
37:34I've also heard crazy things where people are like, oh, I'm gonna try flying, you know, but I, I knew a guy who took a class and the idea was they used intention setting where the idea was, pick a person who's a lot who's real but dead and interview them.
37:50And he spent weeks just creating an intention.
37:52I'm gonna interview Marilyn Monroe.
37:54I'm gonna interview Marilyn Monroe.
37:55I'm gonna interview Marilyn Monroe and one night he had a dream where he was in a kind of blank open space.
38:00He was sitting in a chair, there's a chair in front of them and up walks Marilyn Monroe and she says, hi, I'm here for my interview.
38:07I'm here for my interview that you've been asking for.
38:09That's right.
38:09So now was that the spirit of Marilyn Monroe?
38:13I don't know.
38:14And it doesn't matter what matters to me is that somebody took a desire and an intention, put energy into it and had a mystical experience.
38:26That's a muscle worth building.
38:30Yeah.
38:30And, you know, I teach so much in my own work about manifesting, using the law of attraction.
38:35And it's, it's really, I'm teaching similar things just during this waking 3d life that you're teaching or whoever is teaching during sleep.
38:43So dreams are actually like if you're interested in manifesting your reality and you're engaged in the idea of like creating the seed of the idea with your mind, filling your feeling body with the sense that you already have it and, and pushing forward into the future as a, you know, using that as a manifestation tool.
39:06You're like pumping your conscious awareness with your Yes.
39:11Yes, I want this.
39:12Yes, I'm getting this.
39:13Yes, I'm working for this.
39:14Yes.
39:15Yes.
39:16Well, guess where the nose are da you're unconscious.
39:20Yeah.
39:21And where do we go with our dreams into the unconscious?
39:26So I think that one of the most powerful things you can do to add on to your manifestation desires is to pay attention to your dreams.
39:36And if there's something specific you're working on to manifest a project, an idea, a soulmate, whatever I would take this on like a, you know, like, like, like, like my life depended on it.
39:47Where you just ask your dreams to show you the resistance, the fear, the squeeze where under the surface of your unconscious you might be saying no, because all of us are saying yes and no.
40:00And if we don't appreciate the nos, the yeses won't matter much.
40:04And the dream materials that come can trigger your psyche into just like we talked about earlier, process, the fear.
40:12So that that's honored and acknowledged and then the mechanism of your embodiment can go further towards that goal because you're also acknowledging the part of you that doesn't believe I love that advice.
40:27I think that's so beautiful and you know, it's such a yeah, we all have the potential to tap into our unconscious, but we don't realize it, right?
40:37We don't realize that power.
40:39So that's, I love that advice.
40:40I just have to say, I love your story about your second dream with all those men.
40:45But I, and I believe what you said that they're probably living lives on earth and everyone is having this lucid dream like I want you to all meet one day.
40:53And did you have a dream in 2017?
40:57Yeah, I've heard some myth and I don't know if I believe it that you can only dream of faces you've seen before.
41:05But I, I don't know, I don't, I don't think, I believe that.
41:07But what do you think?
41:08That's interesting.
41:09I, I have heard that before too.
41:11, not in any way that, that it, like, look, if you hadn't said that, I'd probably forget that they say that.
41:16But I, I do, I have heard that before.
41:19You know, all I can say in response to that is, is that we know that we are wired to see faces everywhere like we must, our survival depends on that.
41:32We recognize friend or foe through face.
41:36Yeah.
41:37So in fact, we're, we're very or we're very wired to other people, which is partly why the world is falling apart because that the need to other is like built into us.
41:47So because we have this orientation towards faces like we will see faces in rocks and and napkins and stains and right, you know, it's like you could think that's maybe the shroud of Turin, but it might also just be that your brain will form a face in its way that it fills in spots, you know, like the brain will fill in spaces that aren't there in that tiny band of perception thing.
42:12So I mean, I don't know if this is going anywhere in the direction of answering your question.
42:18But I, I have to believe that our relationship to faces is deep and universal and not like that just seems like a limit that I can't dream of a face unless I've seen it.
42:30But then again, I've seen a millions of faces.
42:33So who knows?
42:34You know, even then saying that it's like, is it true?
42:37Is it not true?
42:38The third question I would ask is knowing this, would this be valuable?
42:42Like, would there be value in knowing if this is true or not be like, yeah, not really.
42:46So maybe I don't care.
42:48That's fair.
42:49Yeah, I'm gonna choose that.
42:51It's not true because I like the idea that we can tap into other timelines or dimensions or world.
42:56Yeah.
42:56II I, I am certainly way more on your side of that equation of, of if it's, if, if I'm gonna cho if I'm gonna decide it's gonna be in that direction.
43:07OK.
43:07So you work with a lot of people they, they come tell you their dreams.
43:11Have you ever had someone whose dreams came true?
43:16Premonition?
43:17Yeah.
43:18Yeah, absolutely.
43:19Although I, you know, it's funny, the only story I have to tell about that in terms of like actually working with somebody was there was a woman that I worked with.
43:26This is about 20 years ago and she did have regular precognitive dreams.
43:31And so she called me one day very upset because she had a very vivid precognitive dream of driving over the Sepulveda Pass in the rain and had a very bad car accident.
43:41Sepulveda Pass is a street in Los Angeles.
43:45And,, I sort of sat with this a little bit.
43:48It was like I could feel her agitation and, and,, and I knew her to be a pretty cognitive chamber and at the end of the day we was just like, well, for the next year when it rains, don't take soda.
44:06You know, I, and I think I remember my first precognitive dream because I had one in high school.
44:10It was the most innocuous thing ever.
44:12It was just I had a dream of a bunch of people sitting in circle on the floor.
44:17It's like circling up, sitting Indian style.
44:19And then like the next week, we had to have a talk about something that was taking place in a high school class.
44:25I was in and, and it was actually a dance class, right?
44:27So it wasn't, there weren't chairs.
44:28That's why we sat on the circle, we sat on the floor in a circle.
44:32So like I had this dream that I was sitting in a circle, cross legged with a bunch of people.
44:36And then a week later, I was sitting in a circle, cross legged with people in waking life.
44:40So that's like my big first precognitive dream.
44:42And it's like, that's not very sexy and exciting, but I'm also not a standard precognitive dreamer.
44:48I think we all have them.
44:49I think it happens because I think again time is an illusion and it's, you know we perceive time linearly but that's not how it exists and it is the thinking mind that's doing the perception of time.
45:03Yeah.
45:03No, I I couldn't agree more about time being an illusion.
45:06You made me, that made me think of Deja Vu, right?
45:09Like I, I wonder if Deja Vu is just, oh, I've, I've experienced this in a dream before and I just don't remember it.
45:16I think Deja Vu is a rip and tear in the fabric of space time.
45:20Such that we, we have an experience that we have no language for that is multidimensional, but we have a sensation when we're having that experience and the sensation is experience this before.
45:37And so I, I think that what that is is that we're always experiencing everything everywhere all at once.
45:45But we don't perceive that because how could we function if we did?
45:49So we have this perceiving mind that blocks all of that out and that goes away in dreams because the blocker goes to sleep.
45:59But by the same token, that same thinking mind that keeps us three dimensionally present and unaware of all of the other energies that are, there takes a little break for a second, it goes out and has a cigarette for a moment and then it's like, whoa, I'm having an experience and it feels like I've been here before and it's that, that's what I think is going on in Deja Vu that it's just we get a glimpse behind the curtain where every moment of our life is something we have air quotes experience before.
46:30I love that definition so much.
46:32And it, it, it brings me back to timelines because, you know, the whole thing of time being an illusion, it's so hard to wrap your head around.
46:42But they say that, you know, past lives are actually parallel lives, right?
46:45Like because everything happens in the now But like everything and it's so hard to comprehend from where we are on 3d earth.
46:53Yeah, because we, we have to respect time and everything that's mystical phenomenal like you're just describing operates outside of time.
47:03Yeah.
47:05I love talking about this kind of stuff.
47:07I i it, it blows my mind that people don't talk about this kind of stuff.
47:11I'm like, how can people just be so caught up in 3d world and reality TV?
47:16And their jobs so much more?
47:18There's so much more exciting.
47:19Listen, I have that experience sometimes too where it's like, wait, you're not thinking about this stuff 24 7.
47:24And I am.
47:26Yeah.
47:27So is there anything about dreams that we didn't touch on today that you think is important to get across?
47:34And the answer could be no too.
47:36That's OK.
47:39Yeah.
47:39I'm just gonna say that like in the moment I'm feeling complete.
47:45Thank you so much.
47:46You're so welcome.
47:48Yeah.
47:48For all the things, for a great conversation for this advice for coming on the show, taking the time.
47:53Please let listeners know how they can work with you, where they can find you if you have offers your book, all the things.
48:00Absolutely, Michael lennox.com is really just that, that's where to go.
48:04Like I, I have a large social media presence on Instagram and tiktok.
48:07I do daily astrology videos.
48:09So there's a lot I offer for free.
48:11But Michael lennox.com is really where to find it.
48:14And so all of these podcasts and guest things that I've been doing these few months is in service of psychic dreamer, which came out on January 8th.
48:20So that's at the website too.
48:22So certainly, if you're interested in mystical dream topics, your audience can sort of get that book and, and you can find out all about all the classes that I teach there and all the ways to tap into my podcast and other things, Michael lennox.com.
48:35Awesome.
48:36And if you're driving or somewhere, you can't write that down, it's gonna be in the show notes and listeners.
48:41Thank you so much for tuning in.
48:43If this resonated with you, please like, comment, share, subscribe, send it to someone you think would think it's fascinating.
48:50I don't know anyone who wouldn't find this conversation fascinating.
48:53So let's help.
48:54Spread the good word.
48:56Thank you all so much.
48:57Thank you Dr Michael and have a beautiful rest of your day.
49:00Everyone.